Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[vintagetoppsguy]

To debate whether his service is right or wrong is one thing, but making fun is his name is kind of juvenile.

FWIW, I have never used his service, but I have bought cards from him - about a dozen or so 1956 Topps. They were advertised as NM. I sent them all to SGC for grading and 2 came back a 6, 2 came back an 8 and all the others were either 7 or 7.5. So, his assessment of the cards were spot on. I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't know if any of the cards that I purchased were "cleaned" or not, and I really don't care but, if they were, they got by SGC's graders.

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

+1

Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Not sure what is more juvenile having a harmless good natured laugh at someone’s name. Or not caring if you have been taken to the cleaners no pun intended on doctored cards that are all good because they made it into holders to pass onto the next guy.

Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.

[Matt E.]

Dick or anyone,

Just wondering how much does it cost to have a stain or stains removed?

Do tobacco stains cost more than water stains? What determines the cost?

Thanks,

Matt

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sure...why care? So long as the card gets slabbed, why should a serious collector bother getting involved?

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter? What can be done?

Maybe it's not that I don't care, but I would rather focus my efforts on the types of alterations that do leave evidence and that we can do something about.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter? What can be done?

Maybe it's not that I don't care, but I would rather focus my efforts on the types of alterations that do leave evidence and that we can do something about.

+1

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What can be done?

The fact that cleaned cards get slabbed is possible because graders are unaware of what to look for.

I'm pretty confident nobody lists on the submission form that these cards were cleaned with chemicals before submitting them.

So back to your question David. What can be done?

Maybe a collector could purchase a card that has been cleaned to educate himself/herself.

Just a suggestion.


Jantz

[GoldenAge50s]

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter?

My feelings also. If you can't see it, smell it or can't know it was done, then was ANYTHING really done?

It's like grading: a card gets a VG 4 for a crease no one can see or find--then to me it isn't there!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Maybe a collector could purchase a card that has been cleaned to educate himself/herself.

If it were any other kind of alteration, that would be a great idea. However, from what others have said, the stain removal process is undetectable. So, if I buy a card that I know had a stain removed from it, but I can't detect it (can't smell it, can't feel it, can't see it), then how do I learn from it?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Since you aren't sure let me help you out. It is making fun of someone's name. Not caring about how the previous owner handled the cards prior to you owning is either a well thought out decision on your collecting preference or apathy. Making fun some someone's name is nothing more than a lack of maturity.

Thanks for your guidance Andy, or should I say Andy Bo Bandy.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Thanks for your guidance Andy, or should I say Andy Bo Bandy.

Johnny...be nice

In my opinion, if there is no trace of "alteration", there is no alteration. Just because the card was cleaned, doesn't mean it was altered. If a card is dirty, was it originally dirty? Of course it wasn't...so if it is then cleaned without any chemicals or something that seems to alter the card in some sort, why is this practice considered unethical?

Also, I believe Frank brings up some great points...way to keep it real, Frank!