Best baseball team ever

[the 'stache]

I'm just blown away by how many people don't have Babe Ruth as their starting pitcher. There may be better pure pitchers out there, like Koufax, Walter Johnson, Pedro Martinez, or Greg Maddux. But none of them provide the pitching and offense combination of Ruth.

Look at his 162 game averages as a pitcher and a hitter between 1914 and 1919. This is before he became the Sultan of Swat.



His 162 game averages:

21-11 2.18 ERA, 1.14 WHIP
.308 AVG, 21 HR, 96 RBI, .981 OPS, 190 OPS +.

Yes, he led the AL in HRs in 1918 and 1919 with 11 and 29, and that's where the majority of his offensive numbers came from. But he was still a pitcher first. In 1919 he threw 12 complete games, was 9-5 with a sub 3.00 ERA, and put up Triple Crown caliber numbers at the plate.

Walter Johnson was a career .235 hitter. When offense and pitching are both considered, would you take him over Ruth? Sandy Koufax and his .097 average?

Ruth on the mound clears out right field for Clemente, or Aaron, or Kaline.

[t206hof]

How could Cobb not be in some of you guys lineup? Best player this world will ever see.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I'm just blown away by how many people don't have Babe Ruth as their starting pitcher. There may be better pure pitchers out there, like Koufax, Walter Johnson, Pedro Martinez, or Greg Maddux. But none of them provide the pitching and offense combination of Ruth.

I understand the argument but I think that my team has enough offense without Ruth as the pitcher. Also, I trust Koufax to shut the other team down.

[RTK]

Save room for Mike Trout. Bump the thread back up in 10-15 years.

[rats60]

C Johnny Bench, Josh Gibson
1b Lou Gehrig, Stan Musial
2b Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins
3b Mike Schmidt, George Brett
SS Honus Wagner, Arky Vaughan
LF Babe Ruth, Ted Williams
CF Willie Mays, Ty Cobb
RF Roberto Clemente, Hank Aaron
RhP Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson
LhP Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson
Long Man- Cy Young
Relief- Mariano Rivera, Bruce Sutter

[MooseDog]

The 1972 Oakland A's could beat any all-star team you put together…now THAT was a TEAM!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I understand the argument but I think that my team has enough offense without Ruth as the pitcher. Also, I trust Koufax to shut the other team down.

That's a pretty good point, Alex.

Hmm.

Ok, since I can have 25 guys on my team...

The lineup:

1. Ted Williams, LF
2. Honus Wagner, SS
3. Lou Gehrig, 1B
4. Babe Ruth, RF
5. Mike Schmidt, 3B
6. Ken Griffey, Jr CF
7. Rogers Hornsby, 2B
8. Johnny Bench, C
9. Sandy Koufax, lhp

Rotation

1. Walter Johnson, rhp
2. Pedro Martinez, rhp
3. Greg Maddux, rhp
4. Steve Carlton, lhp

Bullpen
1. Mariano Rivera, rhp
2. Mike Marshall, rhp
3. Dennis Eckersley, rhp
4. Billy Wagner, lhp
5. John Franco, lfp


Bench
1. Ivan Rodriguez, C
2. Joe Morgan, 2B
3. Robin Yount, SS-OF
4. Ty Cobb, CF
5. Willie Mays, CF
6. Roberto Clemente, RF
7. Hank Aaron, RF-1B

I'd be happy with that as my dream team. Lots of versatility. I wanted to keep Rickey Henderson on the team, but I'll be darned if I could find a place to put him. I love my bench. If Johnny Bench gets tired, I have catcher that can hit, and throw out anybody on Earth trying to steal. While I don't have Henderson, I have Joe Morgan and his 689 stolen bases. I guess he'll have to suffice as a pinch runner. Need a pinch hitter? The greatest hitter who ever lived, the true all-time home run king, and a four-time NL batting champion give me some nice options. Oh yeah, and then there's the Say Hey Kid, and the Kid.

[stlcardsfan]

Once again Musial is forgotten. Has to be considered as one of the outfielders. Look at Musial vs. Clemente and it's not even close.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Once again Musial is forgotten. Has to be considered as one of the outfielders. Look at Musial vs. Clemente and it's not even close.

Musial isn't being forgotten, trust me. He's one of my all-time favorite players, and as far as I'm concerned, there might not be a better man to ever play the game. And my top 5 favorite baseball cards of all-time? '58 Topps Clemente, T206 Johnson portrait, 1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig #37, 1956 Topps Ted Williams, and the 1953 Bowman Color Stan Musial.

But unfortunately, tough choices have to be made in putting a team together. I'd love to have Mickey Mantle, Christy Mathewson, Jimmy Foxx and a few others on my 25 man roster. I'd love to have Stan the Man, too. But when it comes to Musial, I don't know where to put him, because he didn't just play one position. He started 989 games at first, 868 games in left field, 680 games in right field, and 305 games in center.

Could I put him in left over Ted Williams? Sure, I could. You can't go wrong with either man. In right field? No, I wouldn't put him over Clemente. Roberto Clemente was simply a better outfielder than Musial. Clemente had one of the strongest arms in the game's history, and since I'm facing some of the best teams of all-time, I'd want a guy in right with a gun for an arm. dWAR might not be the best metric ever, but it's good for quick references. Musial had a -9.3 dWAR for his career. Clemente had a 12.1 dWAR for his. And while the Gold Glove didn't exist while Musial played, it did when Clemente played, and there's never been an outfielder to win more than the 12 Gold Gloves Clemente had (only Willie Mays tied him).

I'll probably revise this in the next week or so, and Musial will be one of the players I seriously consider. He's one of the top ten non pitchers of all-time, in my opinion. But I know that I need versatility, and a player like Robin Yount, who could play both shortstop and center field, gives me more versatility than Musial, even though Stan was the superior hitter.

Don't be surprised to see #6 on my next 25 man squad.

[howard38]

if Rivera goes in, then Wagner deserves to, also
_________________________________________________

Wagner may or may not have a HOF case but it shouldn't have anything to w/Rivera. Rivera clearly had the better career and the election of any player should not open the door for similar but lesser players. That would create a slippery slope that would theoretically lead to every eligible player eventually being in the HOF.

[Touch'EmAll]

C - Berra
1B - Gehrig
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - H. Wagner
RF - Ruth
CF - Mays
LF - Cobb

LHP - Grove
RHP - W. Johnson
Relief - S. Paige

DH - T. Williams

Could possibly put Foxx at 3rd