What's the real deal with these Cuban cards?

[ElCabron]

I'm here. I should be in the mountains enjoying a powder day, but I am here instead. My number is (303)829-1995. My email is my first name at cubanbaseballcards.com. But I thought Rolando was going to post here on the forum.

-Ryan

[ElCabron]

Adam,

Would you mind if we deal with the issue of these Romeo y Julieta cards first and then get answers to your boxing cards? I'm sure Rolando can answer your questions. I just don't want to get too far off topic.

-Ryan

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Adam,

Would you mind if we deal with the issue of these Romeo y Julieta cards first and then get answers to your boxing cards? I'm sure Rolando can answer your questions. I just don't want to get too far off topic.

-Ryan

Sure. I was just filling in the time between her call for you to respond to your response.

[ElCabron]

Okay, I just got off the phone with Rolando and Ernesto. My Spanish is horrible, so it was difficult communicating. I will relay some of what was discussed here. I will also post some of my questions.

I will start by saying that Rolando says the cards are real. He has the cards in front of him and he should be able to tell. I do not believe Rolando would have anything to do with buying, producing, or selling fake cards. So that is a strong point for the "real" side. He has one or two of the amateur players in his collection. I saw them in person over 10 years ago. So at this point, I'm fairly comfortable with the amateur players, which are from the 1920s are probably real. I say "probably" because I am not looking at them in person and can not definitely say they're real without having them in my hands. The amateur player cards makes sense to me because they would have been issued right around the same time as the boxing cards. Cuban baseball cards almost never have stats on the reverse. In fact, none of the cards from the 1920s and earlier do. The fact that the amateur ones have stats makes sense, though, because the Romeo y Julieta boxing cards have stats (W-L record, number of KOs, etc.) on them. So that fits. For the amateur cards.

What I still have doubts about are the 4 Almendares cards. All 12 of these cards were allegedly found together. There were 8 amateur cards and 4 professionals, all of them on Almendares. Actually, only 3 are players and one is a trainer. The amateur cards appear to be from 1922. Are we saying that the Almendares cards were also produced in 1922? If so, why do the backs say 1915 and 1911? An even bigger question is why are all 4 images taken directly from each player's 1910 Punch cards? This really makes no sense to me.

Or, are we saying that the 4 Almendares cards were produced 10 years earlier than the amateur cards, but happen to look exactly like them and were discovered in the same group as them? Were "Romeo y Julieta" and "Punch" both part of the same parent company? If not, why would Romeo y Julieta be using the Punch images?

I have several other questions, comments and observations, but I'll stop here for now and wait for these questions to be answered.

-Ryan

[Exhibitman]

Another Cuban piece, a PC that looks like it was used to promote a fight and was signed by Kid Chocolate to Cuco Conde:



These I believe are cut from matchboxes:





I know, too much stuff, but how often do you get the chance?

Last one [for now] is this

[ElCabron]

Dude, start a separate thread about all that stuff. You'll still get answers.

-Ryan

[Exhibitman]

Understood. I will stop photo-bombing the thread.

Unless Google Translate is off, in the Spanish post I translated above, Rolando mentioned Romeo y Julieta "postcards." I have two real photo postcards from the era that look to be made with Romeo y Julieta art. They are in terrible condition and I am not sure if I have a scan. Are there legit 1920s postcards made with the RyJ art or is that a misread?

[ElCabron]

So, are you saying all the cards are from 1922? I can tell you, that is the ONLY possible way I could see the Almendares cards being legit. They are absolutely not from 1911 or 1915 or anything other than 1922 like the amateurs. It still makes absolutely no sense why they would have been issued using 1910 Punch images and using stats over a decade old, but it's not out of the question.

If you're saying they're from 1922, I'm willing to say it's possible they're real. If you're saying anything earlier, no way.

-Ryan

[ernestohur68]

HE NEVER SAW THEM in his life. But that not means than they are fakes. He love the Dempsey card.

[ernestohur68]

Yo he visto esas postales con anterioridad en el set del 1922 y tengo dos o tres en mi coleccion. Sobre las postales del 1911 y 1915 no las habia visto antes. Pero no tuve nunca dudas desde el momento que las vi y despues de revisar con detenimiento el papel y el plateado de la foto de que son completamente originales. lAS POSTALES ROMEO Y JULIETA INCLUYENDO LAS DE 1922 SON MUY DIFICILES DE ENCONTRAR. Las de boxeo son un poco mas faciles de ver.

[Exhibitman]

Translation:

I've seen those postcards in the set before 1922 and have two or three in my collection. About postcards 1911 and 1915 had not seen before. But I never had doubts from the moment I saw them and after carefully reviewing the role and silver photo that are completely original. ROMEO AND JULIET POSTCARDS INCLUDING THOSE OF 1922 ARE VERY HARD TO FIND. The boxing are a little easier to see.

[ernestohur68]

I will post a photo of me and Rolando talking with Ryan. Rolando confirmed Ryan than the cards are originals. He said than the Romeo y Julieta cards are very rare. The boxing cards are easier to find. He have in his collection two or 3 cards from the set of 1922 . And although ne never saw the 1911 and 1915 cards he guaranteed with his reputation than they are originals He said that this will be enough to Ryan. He said that he truth in him. He will write you directly to Ryan now.

[ernestohur68]

very logic what you said. maybe they are from same set because the print in the back I just opened the cubanball.com he added other romeo y julieta cards FROM SAME set of 1911--1915. bUT he don't think they used stadistics of 1911 or 1915 in e print of 1922

[ernestohur68]

MATCH BOX . People used to cut the box and converted them in cards.

[ernestohur68]

Ryan, I don't want to sell the cards to him. I have found other cards and I sell them in Ebay In the past I found the Aguilitas and I sold them in Ebay. Rolando is here yet. he said that he would like to buy them for me. He is smiling but he know he can not buy them from me. Thanks very much for your interest. He said agree with you about the same image used in the punch cards. hE SAID than they are other example of this as the CALLUP and PHOTOS issued that used same images. Maybe they used images from SPORT ASSOCIATION. he can not said the year of the 1911 and 1915 card but THEY CAN SAID THAN ALL THE CARDS ARE ORIGINALS