Spalding, Reach and other cut outs sold on our BST

[vintagetoppsguy]

This thread is ridiculous at this point and some are losing focus of the original question as it was asked. It wasn’t “Do you think cutting up 100 year old pieces of memorabilia is a bad practice or not?” The question was “Should publication cut outs be allowed to be sold on the BST?”

I voted yes, with caveat (as long as they’re describing them accurately). People should leave their personal opinions out of it. I don’t like trimmed cards, but I would never interfere with someone’s right to sell them (as long as they’re describing them accurately) just because of my personal opinion.

[thecatspajamas]

The question was not, "Do they have a RIGHT to sell them?" It was "Should they be allowed to be sold on the BST" of Net54, a site that generally fosters the preservation of baseball antiquities. I voted "no" because I don't think that anything that encourages the destruction of vintage publications has any place in a forum that otherwise encourages their preservation. There are plenty of other venues where they can exercise their right to destroy whole collectibles and sell them off piecemeal.

The ultimate decision of whether they have the right to sell them HERE falls to Leon, and I appreciate him soliciting the opinions of the board members before making that decision.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

This thread is ridiculous at this point and some are losing focus of the original question as it was asked. It wasn’t “Do you think cutting up 100 year old pieces of memorabilia is a bad practice or not?” The question was “Should publication cut outs be allowed to be sold on the BST?”

I voted yes, with caveat (as long as they’re describing them accurately). People should leave their personal opinions out of it. I don’t like trimmed cards, but I would never interfere with someone’s right to sell them (as long as they’re describing them accurately) just because of my personal opinion.

It's more ridiculous when someone tells us how we should discuss things in a discussion forum. Next time you post and it's not a direct, clear and concise response to the exact question the OP posted, I'll be sure to let you know that you are ridiculous.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It's more ridiculous when someone tells us how we should discuss things in a discussion forum. Next time you post and it's not a direct, clear and concise response to the exact question the OP posted, I'll be sure to let you know that you are ridiculous.

What's even more ridiculous is when one doesn't know the difference between a discussion and a poll.

In other words, vote and move on. No need to impose your views on everybody else (especially 11 times in the same thread).

[freakhappy]

Cutting up magazines gets me amped!!!

I can see why people wouldn't like others cutting up old magazines and would rather see them preserved, but it's okay if they want to do so. Just like it's okay if someone chooses to trim a baseball card...it's theirs to do so! Do I like it, absolutely not, but that's not my decision.

I do believe they should be allowed to sell it here if they wish...there is obviously a market for them and they look great. I love the looks of these magazines and don't believe I would ever cut them out unless the mag was falling apart. I don't blame anyone if they decide to frame a page or cut anything out in it because unless you reprint the page, how else are you going to display some of these wonderful pics? I think there are much bigger issues in this hobby than worrying about some magazines getting cut up.

[Jeffrompa]

How about cutting up T202's and selling them as 3 pieces ?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

How about cutting up T202's and selling them as 3 pieces ?

A Walter Johnson did this past week. Sorry you missed it

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=182501

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

How about cutting up T202's and selling them as 3 pieces ?

Actually, I've had a few of them over the years. Ditto a 4-on-1 exhibit cut. If I can get a major HOFer end piece from a T202 for a few bucks I'd pick it up just for the novelty of it.

The items we are discussing are not singular works of art; despite their often aesthetically pleasing graphics, they are essentially mass-produced low cost items. Treating a Reach guide that can be had for well under fifty bucks with the same reverence as a 1,300 year old hand-illuminated manuscript is a false equivalence. There is a hierarchy of preservation-worthiness to everything in the art and collectibles sphere. An old magazine falls pretty low down that spectrum.

I find the idea that refusing to allow these items somehow strikes a blow for preservation of baseball history to be rather silly. Even assuming for the sake of discussion that a beater Reach guide is worth preserving, whether or not cuts from them are sold here will not 'save' one item from the cutting shears. As is the case with many other things [like paper conservation techniques], I think our hobby is once again debating whether to try to close the barn door as the horse runs down the road. People have been cutting up books and magazines for a very long time; illustration sales are a normal and accepted part of every vintage paper fair I've ever attended. Designers and decorators have been framing and using them for years. Cut materials are found throughout the National as well; just take a look around at the Harper's woodcuts.

I am not comfortable banning items solely based on origin as long as they were accurately described. It is too difficult to do without making judgment calls that simply are not appropriate for an ostensibly free market. Is it OK to sell a Harper's woodcut? How about a page from a Police Gazette? If so, why is that "better" than an illustration from a Reach guide? All were removed from publications they were intended to be part of. I really don't want N54 to make that judgment call for me. I am also confident that if the market is allowed to work, it will work. If you believe that the customers will dictate whether an item is worth buying, then let the items be sold with proper disclosures. If no one buys the items here, the sellers will go away.

Finally, I am not a fan of dictating to other collectors what they can collect. Everyone has their own style and desire and budget for collecting. I am not comfortable telling those collectors who value a cut item for whatever reason that they are not welcome here, that their collection sucks, etc. I collect plates removed from old books. It is often the only way to get a career-contemporary [or close to it] item depicting an athlete. I'd hate to think that someone would tell me 'sorry, you can't buy or sell a Tom Molineaux print for your HOF collection because it was once in a book'.

[ullmandds]

I would guess in the past kids would cut up T202's or exhibit 4 in 1's for whatever reasons...but it would be counterintuitive from a value standpoint to do so today.

I used to be very turned off by T202 end panels from a collecting standpoint...but these days I see it is a more reasonable way to collect some really beautiful vintage cards.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What's even more ridiculous is when one doesn't know the difference between a discussion and a poll.

In other words, vote and move on. No need to impose your views on everybody else (especially 11 times in the same thread).

David, I enjoy your discussions, but you are not moderator material.

[nolemmings]

I voted no, and agree with the comments of those who find it distressing that books and periodicals are hacked so that pics may be harvested. I would very much prefer that such monstrosities be kept off the B/S/T and that those who wish to collect them be required to look elsewhere.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What's even more ridiculous is when one doesn't know the difference between a discussion and a poll.

In other words, vote and move on. No need to impose your views on everybody else (especially 11 times in the same thread).

I believe this is both a discussion AND a poll (or a discussion WITH a poll, if you prefer). Yes, there is a poll at the top of the page, but Leon also asked for "Any thoughts?" in the initial post. I believe all of the subsequent posts qualify as thoughts, whether they agree with my own thoughts on the subject or not.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What's even more ridiculous is when one doesn't know the difference between a discussion and a poll.

In other words, vote and move on. No need to impose your views on everybody else (especially 11 times in the same thread).

Discussion allows people to know why the believe the things they do to support their answers. Including myself there are at least two people that changed their opinion because of this discussion:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

The more I think about it I am willing to change my initial vote to no from yes with the correct info.

The poll won't let me change, but I am voicing it here.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

While this concept is appalling to me...similar to cutting a cobb bat or ruth jersey into a million pieces.. I answered the survey based on the premise that this practice cannot be stopped.


but in retrospect I'd like to change my answer to no so as not to promote the buying or selling of this "Stuff."

Discussion within a poll is expected and promoted as pointed out:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I believe this is both a discussion AND a poll (or a discussion WITH a poll, if you prefer). Yes, there is a poll at the top of the page, but Leon also asked for "Any thoughts?" in the initial post. I believe all of the subsequent posts qualify as thoughts, whether they agree with my own thoughts on the subject or not.

[slidekellyslide]

I have probably about 10-15 of these Spalding/Reach guide cutouts..all of the Lincoln team or the Nebraska Indians team. It was a cheap way (99 cents + shipping) to get team portraits of the teams I collect without having to buy each Spalding/Reach guide. I hope they came from damaged books, but I doubt it.

I bought this one as a companion piece for the postcard and cabinet photos I have because it named the players.