Ethical issues selling items you don't think are authentic

[Republicaninmass]

If you are questioning the morality of it, you already know the answer.


I learned that from these boards

[djson1]

I don't know if morality would come into play unless you are positive the items are forged. But we all have items which might be authentic but they just aren't exemplar. And, if you state so in the listing, is there still a morality issue? You're basically just letting the buyer make the ultimate decision. Like I stated, I recently bought something even though the seller thought it was secretarial, but I was pretty sure it was authentic.

[theshleps]

I personally rip them up but if you boldly stated you think there is a good chance it isn't real and even put it in the title I guess it is OK. But is it gets hidden within the description and people could easily miss it- then it would be wrong.
I bought a Ruth that looked good but when I got it was an obvious photocopy. The description made it sould like it could be a copy but downplayed it so it sounded like it wasn't. I had to complain to ebay and then made the guy refund the $ but it was a hassle.
If you state it is probably fake you will get very few bids so might as well trash it

[ooo-ribay]

Caveat Emptor

[glchen]

I don't think you should do it since the evidence strongly points to the item not being authentic. However, if you think there is still a reasonably good chance it may be genuine, then I think you must offer the buyer a very generous return policy, like a lifetime, no questions asked, return policy. Therefore, if the customer ever decides in the future to have their own experts that they trust review the item and decide they don't like it, they can return it whenever they want, even years into the future.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glchen

I don't think you should do it since the evidence strongly points to the item not being authentic. However, if you think there is still a reasonably good chance it may be genuine, then I think you must offer the buyer a very generous return policy, like a lifetime, no questions asked, return policy. Therefore, if the customer ever decides in the future to have their own experts that they trust review the item and decide they don't like it, they can return it whenever they want, even years into the future.

I am of the opinion that if you are 100% honest and transparent then you can sell anything. So if you think there is a 75% chance something isn't good, and clearly state it, then it's ok. As long as someone knows exactly what they are buying then I have no issue selling it. To each their own though.....BTW, I think there would be as many differing opinions on this as there are members on the board.

[glchen]

Hi Leon, I know what you're saying, but I guess I've seen too many fake Ruth cards sold on ebay with some kind of description stating that the seller took it to some hobby store where the owner said it was authentic, but others have said it may not be authentic or other cases where the seller said it may or may not be good, and it's up to the buyer to decide. And these sellers always have a no returns accepted policy, and even when you send a message to the seller saying the card is no good, they don't change or take down the listing (and reporting to ebay does not work either).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glchen

Hi Leon, I know what you're saying, but I guess I've seen too many fake Ruth cards sold on ebay with some kind of description stating that the seller took it to some hobby store where the owner said it was authentic, but others have said it may not be authentic or other cases where the seller said it may or may not be good, and it's up to the buyer to decide. And these sellers always have a no returns accepted policy, and even when you send a message to the seller saying the card is no good, they don't change or take down the listing (and reporting to ebay does not work either).

Hey Gary
I am right with you on this. But I have seen people say something is FAKE or a REPRINT and then people still bid like no tomorrow. I told myself a long time ago that I won't help protect stupidity. If I say something is fake and someone buys it thinking it's real, more power to them. I don't think I did anything wrong. And since we are on Ruth, here is one that would be hard to authenticate....but has been done to my satisfaction.

[djson1]

Originally Posted by Leon

....BTW, I think there would be as many differing opinions on this as there are members on the board.

Some good feedback on here. I think Leon was spot on about the differing opinions. I, myself, have differing opinions on the matter.

[Scott Garner]

If in doubt take the high road.
Chalk up any losses that may occur as a result to be the cost of becoming a better educated collector. We all have been there, BTW.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If you are questioning the morality of it, you already know the answer.


I learned that from these boards

+1

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If you are questioning the morality of it, you already know the answer.


I learned that from these boards

I agree 100%.

[Exhibitman]

It really isn't complicated and doesn't involve morality or any other difficult concepts. If you know something is fake and sell it you are committing fraud. Everything else is a matter of opinion. If you do not want to state an opinion for someone to rely on, then have a TPG look at it. If it passes, you can sell the item as a "XYZ Authenticated" item and let the customers decide whether to accept the TPG's warranty. I do that all the time. I do not second-guess the industry-accepted experts when it comes to things I do not know. If the TPG cannot authenticate it [not necessarily because it is forged; sometimes they don't have exemplars] and you don't want to stand behind the signature, sell it without warranty of authenticity and be prepared to take a radically lower price. I picked up this item from one such auction:



I understood that if the signature was no good it was my problem, not theirs.

A sloppy, incongruous, or hurried signature is one of the most difficult things to deal with. Below are two items unquestionably signed by the same HOFer. The first Lennox Lewis item came to me courtesy of a friend who got it at an HBO event. Lewis signed at a table sitting down when he had time to do it:



This Lewis card is one that I got myself at the Los Angeles presser for the Klitschko fight while the champ was walking from the ring to the podium to have his press conference:



No way will the one I got ever pass muster with an 'expert' or with anyone else, except perhaps an expert I knew personally and who would therefore trust me enough to stand behind the item. That's what makes collecting this stuff so darn difficult. It gets even worse when you deal with an aging athlete, perhaps one who is experiencing a physical decline. Like Muhammad Ali. Look at his signature from the 1960s and then the 2000s and it is like two different people signed.