Simulated T206 sheets....check them out....plus, new find of 350/460 series DRUM card

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Edited to add: Having read this thread in its entirety for the first time, I find it interesting that it now seems be the official position of T206 Resource that Piedmont was printed first in the 150 print run. When that site was launched, I seem to recall some fairly emphatic table-pounding about Sovereign being first. This is all well and good--mistakes are inevitable in this type of research and I have certainly made my share.

Since the day T206Resource.com was launched we have not wavered regarding the order in which we believe the original 150 Subjects were printed.

The original 150 Subjects were printed first with Piedmont 150, next Sweet Caporal 150 and then Sovereign 150.

After these print runs other cards were added to the 150 Series (Print Group 1) including Wagner, Plank, Crawford, Lundgren and Jennings.

These later print runs included backs for Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 150, but did not include Sovereign 150.

The early Sovereign group shows clearly the original 150 Subjects designated for the set.

That was our position on day 1 and continues to be today.

Edit add: http://t206resource.com/Print%20Group%201.html

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Since the day T206Resource.com was launched we have not wavered regarding the order in which we believe the original 150 Subjects were printed.

The original 150 Subjects were printed first with Piedmont 150, next Sweet Caporal 150 and then Sovereign 150.

After these print runs other cards were added to the 150 Series (Print Group 1) including Wagner, Plank, Crawford, Lundgren and Jennings.

These later print runs included backs for Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 150, but did not include Sovereign 150.

The early Sovereign group shows clearly the original 150 Subjects designated for the set.

That was our position on day 1 and continues to be today.

Edit add: http://t206resource.com/Print%20Group%201.html

Hi Tim, Thanks for your reply. I hope you don't mind fielding a couple of follow-ups.

1. Your site states that the Sovereign 150 checklist is the "original" 150 series checklist. Agreed?

2. By "original" you mean that it was the first checklist produced by ALC (or ATC) and thus includes the original 150 subjects. Agreed?

3. Your site further states that Wagner (Pittsburg) was not on that checklist. Agreed?

4. So if that's the case, how do you account for the fact that the Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 150 print runs began before the Sovereign 150 print run? Stated differently, why would ALC start the Piedmont 150 and Sweet Caporal 150 print runs using an expanded checklist before starting the Sovereign 150 print run using the "original" checklist?

5. Aside from the fact that it gets you to the magic 150 number, what is your evidence that the Sovereign 150 checklist is the "original" one?

6. If Wagner (Pittsburg) was not on the "original" checklist, why does he appear along with numerous subjects who ARE on that checklist in the Sporting Life ads that ran from August 21, 1909 - September 18, 1909 and which discuss Piedmont, Sweet Caporal and Sovereign? Isn't it more likely that these ads reflect ATC's bona fide original intention to print Wagner (Pittsburg) with the full complement of Piedmont, Sweet Caporal and Sovereign than an intention to deceive the public?

7. Why is 150 so "magical" anyway? Isn't it just as likely that ALC (or ATC) rounded to a nearby 10 when coming up with the "150", "350" and "460" designations? (i.e. couldn't it be that their original checklist had, say, 155 subjects and they designated it as "150" for marketing purposes?)

8. Finally, what do you see as a possible motivation for excluding Wagner, arguably the game's most popular player, from the "original" 150 series checklist (and also excluding other stars such as Plank, Crawford and Jennings), while including over 100 lesser players--especially given the uncertainty at the time the "original" checklist was created whether the cards would be a hit and there would be later series?

Link to Wagner/Sovereign Sporting Life ad posted on your fine site: http://www.t206resource.com/Sporting%20Life%20Ads.html

Thanks Tim.

Scot

Edited a few times to (1) clarify the queries; (2) add link to the Wagner/Sovereign Sporting Life ad; and (3) add seventh and eighth queries.