Oldest commercially produced baseball card?

[oldjudge]

I agree with Barry. The first widely available baseball card set was almost surely the N172 set. As for the first baseball cards, I think Rob made a good argument with the 1863 Grand Match souvenir tickets.
I think with the Peck & Snyders we will never know when each of the trade cards were issued. We know the CdVs with the Chadwick book advertising were issued in 1869. With the trade cards, and this includes the Creighton, we have no idea. Corey has an interesting theory that the black printing Cincinnati trade cards predate the red ones. I don't know if this is true or not. I don't know if the 1868 Atlantics trade card was issued in 1868 or 1871. The one in REA last year had the address trimmed off so it is difficult to assign a date to it. Corey, you have one, what is the address on the back of yours?
At the end of the day, the first card discussion will likely end up at the same place as the rookie card discussion. Everyone has their own definition, most likely the definition that benefits them personally the most. Personally, as was true with the rookie cards, I don't care.

[barrysloate]

Kevin- those are the CdV's I referred to, and I assume that is what they meant by individual players, since those images are just a composite of those players laid out and reshot by the photographer. But I don't believe there is any advertising directly linking them to P & S.

Edited to add they probably hired J.A. Pierce to produce them, and sold them in their store or through their catalog.

[orator1]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Kevin- those are the CdV's I referred to, and I assume that is what they meant by individual players, since those images are just a composite of those players laid out and reshot by the photographer. But I don't believe there is any advertising directly linking them to P & S.

Edited to add they probably hired J.A. Pierce to produce them, and sold them in their store or through their catalog.

So the CDVs now known as "J.A. Pierce" could actually be the "Peck & Snyder Life Photographs" from the ad? That would be a significant discovery. If proof can be found that these are P&S, potentially 7 new team CDVs could be added to the "Peck & Snyder" checklist.
Peck & Snyder teams from the ad:
BOSTON
CHICAGO
OLYMPIC
ATHLETIC
CLEVELAND
ROCKFORD
KEKIONGA

Have any of the above 1871 teams been documented with Peck & Snyder advertising?

[barrysloate]

Paul- most of those CdV's are one or two known. And I still wouldn't call them Peck and Snyders. From what I see, Pierce made them and the sporting goods store distributed them. But the connection is nevertheless fascinating.

[Baseball Rarities]

The CDV's were photographed by O.F. Weaver.

They were produced and distributed J.A. Pierce & Co. I assume that the CDV's that Peck & Snyder offered were those that they purchased for resale from J.A. Pierce & Co.

[Jeffrompa]

Love the CDVs . I think this debate will go on for awhile .

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I agree with Barry. The first widely available baseball card set was almost surely the N172 set. As for the first baseball cards, I think Rob made a good argument with the 1863 Grand Match souvenir tickets.
I think with the Peck & Snyders we will never know when each of the trade cards were issued. We know the CdVs with the Chadwick book advertising were issued in 1869. With the trade cards, and this includes the Creighton, we have no idea. Corey has an interesting theory that the black printing Cincinnati trade cards predate the red ones. I don't know if this is true or not. I don't know if the 1868 Atlantics trade card was issued in 1868 or 1871. The one in REA last year had the address trimmed off so it is difficult to assign a date to it. Corey, you have one, what is the address on the back of yours?
At the end of the day, the first card discussion will likely end up at the same place as the rookie card discussion. Everyone has their own definition, most likely the definition that benefits them personally the most. Personally, as was true with the rookie cards, I don't care.

Jay,

My P&S Atlantics is currently on loan to the National Museum of American Jewish History in Philadelphia as part of a baseball exhibit that will be opening next month. As such, I do not have it in my possession to check. It is possible that due to the trimming of the mount the address might not be visible.

[oldjudge]

Corey--was someone on the team from the Tribe?

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey--was someone on the team from the Tribe?

Unless Zettlen is a Jewish name, everyone else appears to be Irish.

[benjulmag]

The item is framed with the 1869 P&S Red Stockings and the 1870 scorecard of the June 14, 1870 game when the Atlantics beat the Red Stockings 8-7 to snap Cincinnati's unbeaten streak. Lipman Pike was a member of the 1870 Atlantics and appears on the scorecard. He was the person of interest to the museum.

[GaryPassamonte]

Kevin's ad is interesting regarding the mention of the Boston Red Stockings team. The "Boston" team mentioned in an ad referenced in the 1995 VCBC pg 2, infers that the Boston team was possibly the Lowells team pictured in the blurb. We now have evidence of a Boston Red Stockings card issued by P & S, as well as the Kekiongas, Cleveland, and Rockford. At first glance, I didn't associate the Pierce cards with P & S. Now, I'm not sure, although it does seem odd that none have surfaced with a P & S ad back.

[bbpostcards]

This trade card from 1876 may be in the mix in one narrow category: I believe it marks the first time a baseball scene at a true baseball park (Boston's South End Grounds) was used to promote a product (barb wire). Is there something earlier I'm overlooking?

Some background. The engraver is John A. Lowell. He was involved in Boston baseball from the late 1850's forward and was so influential that the Boston Lowells was named after him. The message on the reverse is from the president of the Boston Base Ball Association. As the National League was founded in 1876, this image shows South End Grounds, the home of the Boston Red Caps, in its first year as a professional stadium. The detail is interesting. People peeking over the fence. Fans buying tickets. Men, women, kids, all at the ballgame. American flags adorning the grandstands. View of Boston in the distance.