Peyton Manning and Willie Mays

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that logic Jesse Owens is not one of the all time great track athletes because all his records have been broken many times over and his times and distances would probably be mediocre by today's standards. That makes no sense at all. If you plucked a fat and out of shape Babe Ruth straight out of his time and put him amidst players who train year round on equipment light years more sophisticated than existed in the 20's he might suck. But so what?

Nobody said we're "taking away accomplishments", the original question was "who is the best", and like I said, when you're looking for THE BEST, you don't compromise. I guess if we went with the logic of "well they set the record first and used to be #1" we would NEVER include any athlete past the 60's in discussions of "best ever", it goes both ways. Baseball is unlike football because most it has to do with eye and hand coordination and technique when batting. Speed is a factor in stealing bases but it's also about timing and studying the pitcher. There is a reason many records in baseball haven't been broken that were set decades ago. It's almost the complete opposite with baseball as the game has changed in the way it's played, not so much the player has changed (with the exception of the steroid era)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MyGuyTy

Nobody said we're "taking away accomplishments", the original question was "who is the best", and like I said, when you're looking for THE BEST, you don't compromise. I guess if we went with the logic of "well they set the record first and used to be #1" we would NEVER include any athlete past the 60's in discussions of "best ever", it goes both ways. Baseball is unlike football because most it has to do with eye and hand coordination and technique when batting. Speed is a factor in stealing bases but it's also about timing and studying the pitcher. There is a reason many records in baseball haven't been broken that were set decades ago. It's almost the complete opposite with baseball as the game has changed in the way it's played, not so much the player has changed (with the exception of the steroid era)

On the one hand it does seem like mostly hand eye and technique but on the other hand why do people start putting up massive HR totals when they go on steroids and or crank up their workouts?

[Runscott]

I think Buddy has a point, given that football players are now huge compared even to the '70s, but I don't think it would affect quarterbacks or defensive backfield all that much - quarterbacks are still dependent on how well their O-line stacks up against the D-line, and linebackers and safeties were plenty fast back in the day.

But the game of baseball HAS changed a lot, so stats that are holding up today are mainly due to rule changes and today's emphasis on power ($$) - I think the old players would do just fine today, perhaps better in some cases. Baseball was more popular back then, with almost every town, no matter how small, having a semi-pro team, so there was a lot of competition for only 16 teams. And if they had let black players play...