baseball's falling popularity and its affect on our hobby

[MyGuyTy]

Let's not forget either, guys in the 60's, 70's and 80's NEVER thought stamp collecting would disappear because it was so popular for so many decades........yeah we see where that one ended up.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by MyGuyTy

Let's not forget either, guys in the 60's, 70's and 80's NEVER thought stamp collecting would disappear because it was so popular for so many decades........yeah we see where that one ended up.

I would never make the comparison of stamp collecting to card collecting. For most of us, we remember going to a convenience store or card shop to buy packs after we saved our allowance. We would organize our cards by teams, or numberically, and trade with other kids in the neighborhood. We learned to study numbers by looking at the stats on the backs of cards, and likely helped with our math in school. We have those childhood memories that we feel everytime we get a new card for our collection. Cards have images of players we imitated when we played the game. Those players were our heros, and when we played we were those " heros ". My grandmother collected stamps, and all I saw from stamps were images and colors. Stamps were not on tv, no characters, nothing to connect me with the stamp itsself. No hero's, no rivalries, no life, no nothing to keep the hobby alive. Comparing stamps to cards is a poor analogy in my opinion, but that's all it is, my opinion.

[EvilKing00]

Speaking for myself, someone who collected cards since I was a kid in the 80's and 90's. If someone asked me when I was 18-29 if I was interested in collecting pre-war cards I would flat out say no. I had all to do, in finishing school, working a full time job, paying my rent and expenses, going out to bars and hanging out with girlfriends. And on the occasion pick my self up a few maddux and Griffey rookie cards, and throw then im my shoe box.

But as I got older, got married, had a kid, settled down, make more money I have time for a true hobby, cause im not distracted by being a young crazy "kid".

Collectors will allways be around, and always want the, old or older stuff. Weather its furnature, cars, advertising or baseball cards. It just takes the collector some time to mature, in my case.

Im 39 and have only just begun collecting, babe ruth and t205 cards last year. Not because I had no interest.... I just didn't have the funds or the time.

What the heck else is a 40 plus guy gonna do with his pocket money?

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Speaking for myself, someone who collected cards since I was a kid in the 80's and 90's. If someone asked me when I was 18-29 if I was interested in collecting pre-war cards I would flat out say no. I had all to do, in finishing school, working a full time job, paying my rent and expenses, going out to bars and hanging out with girlfriends. And on the occasion pick my self up a few maddux and Griffey rookie cards, and throw then im my shoe box.

But as I got older, got married, had a kid, settled down, make more money I have time for a true hobby, cause im not distracted by being a young crazy "kid".

Collectors will allways be around, and always want the, old or older stuff. Weather its furnature, cars, advertising or baseball cards. It just takes the collector some time to mature, in my case.

Im 39 and have only just begun collecting, babe ruth and t205 cards last year. Not because I had no interest.... I just didn't have the funds or the time.

What the heck else is a 40 plus guy gonna do with his pocket money?

You and I sound like we're in approximately the same boat. I turn 40 in November, collected in the 90's, and thought it was all lost when I had to start working instead of cashing in on my Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa RC's. I walked away from the hobby for about 10 years until I caught the bug again, and now there's no going back.

I'll be the first to admit I'm a flipper, the kind I've heard people on this board generally don't care for but working in the field of education and with a two year old son and wife at home that's the name of my game. I buy to turn over, while also buying for my own personal and have absolutely no shame in what I do because its the only way I can finance the hobby.

One way we can all keep this hobby alive and thriving is sharing it with our children. I cant wait to see whether my son Jaxson takes an interest in the hobby or not. I plan to introduce it to him by giving him a choice of cards every year on his birthday and letting him chose which card he wants based on him researching the players and letting me know why it's the card he wants to add to his collection that year. As soon as he starts selling quality cards for video games I'm sure I'll be re-thinking this idea!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by MyGuyTy

Let's not forget either, guys in the 60's, 70's and 80's NEVER thought stamp collecting would disappear because it was so popular for so many decades........yeah we see where that one ended up.

Decades?! Try well over a century.

And collecting stamps is hardly dead, although it is trending older for a number of reasons.

I've collected a lot of things at various levels since I was around 5 or 6.
ALL of them had dealers and some following. And ALL of them had the same gloomy predictions. For some it sort of happened, for some it really hasn't.

I started with coins and stamps.
A couple of those Whitman blue coin folders, a starter stamp album, a bag of cheap stamps and a bit of stuff from Dads collection after a couple years.
I also collected rocks and minerals. And seashells, and old bottles and telephone/telegraph insulators.

All of those collecting areas are still being collected.
Coins has/had the same aging problems, but the state quarters added some interest from a younger crowd.
Stamps has an aging problem, but the APS is doing a pretty good job of bringing in new collectors. So is USPS, but what they do doesn't work as well as the state quarters.
Old bottles has been pretty static pricewise, and various things have come and gone as fads. It's in a category of hobbies where there really aren't "sets", so a collector has to accept that there won't be any real completion.
Insulators was "big" for a time, but suffered from a lack of supply. There's maybe 20-30 really common ones and after that it gets challenging. One of the antique places I go to has a dealer. His prices are a bit high seeming for the nice stuff.
I've been a bit out of touch on shells. I'm not much of a beach person because of the traffic and crowds. But it was always a small hobby. I think CITES has probably kept it small. Hard to know if the species is common, and if not it may be protected making dealing in the shells illegal (Even if they're found on a beach)
Rocks and minerals is also small, but last I checked was doing fine. Enough interest to support great prices for the spectacular stuff, and availability of cheaper stuff. I used to hunt my own, but a lot of the places I went as a kid are closed to the public now.

I've continued collecting stamps and coins, being much more active with stamps. The stuff I specialize in now is oddly the stuff I disliked for years.

Along the way I've been into other hobbies.
Collecting old racing bicycles and others. - The stuff I really like has become too expensive for me, Balloon tire bikes were the big thing for a time, as were stingrays. Both have peaked and fallen back a bit. But the really great stuff is still doing fine. Early BMX is hot right now, and prices seem totally insane to me.

Old films 16 and 8mm. Another odd hobby, and another one that suffers from a lack of supply. But the "good" stuff is still doing well even if a DVD costs far less than an original film. A "common" feature film in 16mm might have 10-25 copies in existence. Yes, an entire hobby where the common stuff is more rare than the Wagner.

Collecting old pneumatic or hydraulic tools. Heavy and miserable to ship. Often really rare, and also filthy and beaten to death. Fortunately also often cheap. (I never met anyone else that collected that stuff except as a sideline to old cars.)

Old car stuff
Old magazines and other ephemera
Beer cans
Hotwheels and other little cars
Action figures
Model railroads
Plus a bunch of random collectible items. Old radios, wringer washing machine, 50's television,

And yes, I have "some" old videogame consoles and games and some early home computers. Both of those are developing hobbies with a lot of upside. The videogames more than the computers since the computers are big and require a fair amount of technical skill to keep them running. That makes it a hobby that isn't for everyone.

The internet has changed every hobby. The biggest thing has been that now it's obvious what's actually uncommon and what's available everywhere.
I can't really think of any hobby I've heard of that's entirely gone.

Steve B

[MyGuyTy]

We'll if anything it's been a great topic to ponder today

[teetwoohsix]

Lot's of great points brought up in this thread, and it's been fun to read.

I felt Wonka's first post pretty much summed up the way I view things, as far as this topic goes.

I know from my own experience, if I were collecting things from my high school days, it would be more along the lines of concert shirts, heavy metal on vinyl, bongs, and guitars But seriously-

In grade school, I collected the current Topps cards-could have cared less about condition. My small collection was left behind during a move across the country, and I (entering junior high) became focused on girls Fast forward to mid thirties,,,,I decided I wanted to collect "something", and the first thing that came to mind was "baseball cards". I didn't even know about century old cards-I was buying modern cards, then picked up a couple of cards from the 50's and 60's.....then discovered pre-war. Instantly I was hooked- I couldn't stop looking at them all (on ebay). They were, and still are, always out of my price range. I sometimes go for months without a pick up.

But I am still hooked on them-T206's (damn these things ). I understand that there is an investment side to things, but I try to put that out of my perspective for the most part-meaning, I am not buying cards because of what they may or may not be worth in the future. I hope they at least retain their value-but if they don't, oh well-I had a blast collecting them and I love them, and that's worth whatever I pay for them (to me).

So, you can't base the future of the hobby on what high school kids are doing......at least when it comes to pre-war cards (in my humble opinion ). Adults who want to collect things (some at least) will always find an attraction to pre-war cards, and their mystique of a time long past.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't have an opinion on the broader market but as I have said before, I think the values of freaks and miscuts and rarebacks is due in large part to a few lunatics here pumping each other up so I don't see those holding their value.

[ullmandds]

This topic has been discussed numerous times...and the sides are usually split down the middle. My stance on this topic usually mirrors that of myguyty in a lot of ways.

I am a collector...always have been...always will be to a degree...not just vintage bb cards...pottery, art, books, all kinds of stuff. But there aren't that many collectors out there! I don't have any friends outside of this hobby who collect much of anything?

Technology has changed society in so many ways...take music for example. We used to buy records, cassettes...look at them, play them...now people buy mp3's...they buy songs. It's much less tangible. Society is trending away from tangible things in a lot of ways in my opinion...and I find myself getting away from "things" as well.

I agree that the t206 freak/rare back phenomenon is incredibly overinflated...and over time these prices will drop quite a bit.

I think common vintage card supply of non hof'ers will exceed demand in the future causing these prices to drop as well.

I think there are many older collectors who will be leaving us/selling off their collections in the future...causing a large influx of cards into the hobby.

On the other side of the coin...many older people/collectors will be passing away...and will be leaving significant amounts of $$$$ to the younger generations...so the younger folk...while they may not have been successful as their parents will be inheriting a lot of $$$$ so they will have the means to buy baseball cards if they so choose.

As the popularity of modern cards diminishes...this could increase the popularity of older cards.

As the values of common, non high tier hof'ers decrease...the price point of entry will enable more to enter the vintage hobby who as they mature will pursue the higher buck cards.

Noone really knows what will happen to this hobby...we all can speculate...one thing I do know is that despite the fact I am a little bearish on the future of the hobby...I will be an active participant in it until I am no longer able!

I have trimmed my collection from quantity to more "quality" cards over the last few years as I think the big names and rarities will hold their values better over the long term.

[rdwyer]

I went to the Ducks-Kings hockey game last night at Dodger stadium. Was very entertaining, and even had KISS performing. The NHL is attracting more and more fans every day. The outdoor hockey games are responsible for this.

[wonkaticket]

I think its so funny and very telling that every time one of these threads pops up the case made is always about T206 prices. Nobody ever says who will be willing to drop 100k on a N172 CA league card years from now?

At least it shows the power and just how mainstream T206 is which is a good thing for the hobby.

If the folks who start the gloom and doom train only knew how much huge money was spent on other items like 50's regional issues, type cards, 19th century, advertising pieces etc. the least of their concerns would be 10k on a Drum or print error peanuts.....peanuts....peanuts compared to other stuff.

[mark evans]

I think MyGuy may be barking up the right tree.

I'm 64 and collected cards as a kid. With the advent of eBay, and in light of my interest in baseball history, I developed an interest in pre-war cards, although I of course never saw those guys play. Key to my interest in vintage cards was the fact that I had collected baseball cards in my youth.

I'm assuming a significant percentage of pre-war collectors, like me, first collected cards as a kid. If this is true, and if statistics are showing that fewer and fewer kids are collecting baseball cards, then it should follow that demand for vintage cards will decline over time.

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I think its so funny and very telling that every time one of these threads pops up the case made is always about T206 prices. Nobody ever says who will be willing to drop 100k on a N172 CA league card years from now?

At least it shows the power and just how mainstream T206 is which is a good thing for the hobby.

If the folks who start the gloom and doom train only knew how much huge money was spent on other items like 50's regional issues, type cards, 19th century, advertising pieces etc. the least of their concerns would be 10k on a Drum or print error peanuts.....peanuts....peanuts compared to other stuff.

John it all falls under the same umbrella, vintage baseball related goods. Hence the topic that OP brought up.......the OVERALL decline in interest in baseball and how it affects the future of vintage baseball memorabilia.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by MyGuyTy

John it all falls under the same umbrella, vintage baseball related goods. Hence the topic that OP brought up.......the OVERALL decline in interest in baseball and how it affects the future of vintage baseball memorabilia.

You're right I give in I'm selling it all tonight and running for the hills the hobby is doomed.......

[rhettyeakley]

I always find it interesting that people tie the collecting of baseball memorabilia so closely to the collectors love of the current game of baseball.

I actually feel pretty good about the sports collectibles hobby. This hobby unlike many collectibles fields has an advantage in that it is tied to a game that is still currently being played and maintains popularity. Many items from other hobbies that maintain high value today have nothing going for them other than that they were once highly prized and that value has continued to this day.

What about the glass bottle collector... do we tie their long term viability based on how much people today love glass bottles? How about the Coca-Cola collector... do we worry about their long term collectability due to Coke's dropping presence in the soda market today? How about coin collecting... do we worry about this market because almost nobody uses physical money anymore?

The answer to these questions may very well be yes but we can make similar types of pessimistic views with nearly every field within the collectibles market. Nobody can see the future but I think some are being a bit simplistic when they start making direct correlations from the popularity of baseball right now and the long term collectability of baseball items.

[basesareempty]

I think that this generation of sports fan is moving toward autograph collecting. Look how people are willing to shell out $200-400 or more to get Willie Mays autograph and there will be 100+ people waiting in line at that price point. Many people enjoy the experience of meeting a player, getting an autograph, having it framed and putting it on a wall in their "man cave". They are willing and have the money to do so.This is money not being spent at the card dealers tables at major shows. The idea of sorting through a box of mid grade cards trying to complete a set from the 50's or 60's does not appeal to many of these people. It's all about experiences and interaction with these celebrities for this generation. Look at how Las Vegas and Disney appeal to their visitors. It's not about gambling and roller coasters, it's the total experience that gets them to come back again and again.

[freakhappy]

I don't believe that card collecting will reflect based on game attendance necessarily...I hardly ever go to games because I'd rather spend my money on cardboard than watch the game live I'm a huge fantasy player and literally pay attention to every game, but just not live.

Also, baseball and football are ultra popular in this country, so I don't see them going away anytime soon or ever...at least I hope not! Card collecting doesn't exactly have an exact correlation with watching or attending the games, but in some cases if an adult doesn't introduce their child to the hobby, they may never get involved and especially for the right reasons. Card collecting has really taken a turn the last twenty years or so and it's more of a money thing than a collecting for the love thing...that is one big reason I love this website along with the members of it...although a bunch collect expensive cardboard here, we also love and appreciate what we collect.

I can't speak for everyone, but I've always been a collector although I've taken a few years off before, but the chances someone will collect when they become an adult probably aren't greater if they don't collect at some point when they are a kid...not in every instance, but it seems very logical that it happens this way a great deal.