I think the site is getting visious> sp

[wonkaticket]

Really?

So you think stuff like this is unfair to the poor auction houses & eBay sellers? You think this is someone like me being jealous of their success and that's the real motive?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180508

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=178565

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have but the site has grown etc. I would see that as a bigger issue here than folks pointing out and policing their hobby.

Perhaps you have an example to illustrate your point?

I've seen this rough stance before from you love to get more details and your thoughts Joe.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180592

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Gets vicious sometimes but it has never been directed at me. Really enjoy the site and have learned a lot.

[edjs]

I have been here for a short time, but for one I value that people here point out when auctions are dealing items not on the up and up. And the advice, camaraderie, and free exchange of knowledge has invigorated my enthusiasm for the hobby. Thanks again to Leon for letting me join.

[jcmtiger]

I just think some collectors on the site are getting to big for there britches. I have been collecting since 1973 and have seen a lot in those years. The same posters seem to post the same over and over about the auction houses. But, everyone seems to bid in these same auctions over and over. Some the experts on the board point out skinned, trimmed and altered cards all the time. Just by looking at scans, by the way. I do applaud the ones that are maybe right and the way they approach it.

As for as the auction sites, maybe they did bid on their own auctions, I don't know and I am not sure if the posters that say they did really know for sure.

I will say that I have bid and bought on auctions held by Lelands and Mastros and I do know both Josh and Bill and if they did wrong they will pay. By the way the people they worked with are still in the hobby.

Joe

[wonkaticket]

Joe I ask again do you have any examples of these “big for their britches” posts? Otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes and venting.

As for the people bidding with auction houses we are all guilty of doing business with folks who don’t deserve our business that is a problem I agree.

Cheers,

John

[Runscott]

Joe, I would love to think that anyone who has the same hobby passions as me, must be primarily in it because of their passion for collecting, and that they are all super-nice, extremely honest people.

But that would be me being a blind moron.

[EvilKing00]

I couldn't disagree more. The guys on this site that point out the fraud on auction houses and ebay are helping other members here so we don't get ripped off.

I would take some of these guys opinions anyday.

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

[bobbyw8469]

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

+1. I have learned a lot from these boards. And if you ever come across a suspect Sport Kings card, let me know. Those fakes are easy to spot, even for a rank amateur like me, yet people on Ebay still seem to bid on them and get stuck with them.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have ....

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

This seems kind of vicious. I enjoy the site because it gives me an opportunity to learn about the hobby.

[Section103]

It seems the same to me.

Good members have been lost and that will be mourned for a long time.
Eager new members come to learn and keep the place from becoming stale.
Inevitably some new member comes and can not or will not understand nuances of the culture.
EBay will get raked. More often than not, rightfully so.
Discourse will sink below levels that just should not happen. The Christmas Eat a dick thread comes to mind as just one.
The board goes on.

[Julz24]

No one wants to be swimming in negativity all the time. For that we could all just watch the news. My favorite topics here are often found with the help of the search function. But I appreciate the threads where members point out shilled auctions and phony cards. 95% of everything I know about vintage cards was learned here on Net54. Before I found this site, the last time I had heard the term pre war was in social studies class in H.S. Once I learn the difference between a W555 and a D308, I can add more to the discussions. Until then, I will defer to the experts and make my way back to the search button.

[ALR-bishop]

What was it to begin with ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

What was it to begin with ?

54

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

And I joined 4 years ago, so I made it in. Oh wait no 5 is MORE than 4. Darn.

[ullmandds]

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

No kidding...the title of this thread would have gotten the once over.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

I'm saying 150 centipoieses

[steve B]

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum ! ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B

[slidekellyslide]

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

+1 I'll ask a second time Joe do you have examples?

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by steve B

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum ! ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B

I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!!

[frankbmd]

Leon,

I know you hate to subdivide the forum into ever increasing sections, but this thread is completely ignoring the Grade B idiots. Perhaps they need their own forum section. Let us strive to be inclusive, divisive and derisive.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!!

Big +1

Steve, I really appreciate your insight into all things print related....I've learned a ton from your posts

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.

With respect to the original post, I have found the overall tenor of discourse-- especially on the Post-War side, lately-- to be very collegial and supportive. Just a group of enthusiastic collectors sharing cards, putting each other onto new cards to appreciate, basically what one would come to a place such as this to do.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.

What's more insulting are barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What's more insulting is barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

Jeff,

I did read that IQ comment as a broad slight to relative newcomers, and if no offense was intended, then none will be taken. I do agree with your position regarding the OP.

Best,

Matt Cirulnick

[gregr2]

It's a forum....you have to learn who's opinion is valuable and who's is not....that usually doesn't take too long to figure out.

I'm new. I ask a lot of questions but I'm not dumb!!

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by gregr2

It's a forum....you have to learn who's opinion is valuable and who's is not....that usually doesn't take too long to figure out.

I'm new. I ask a lot of questions but I'm not dumb!!

Asking questions is the way to get answers, its a sign of being intelligent. I may not be a good speller, but i do ok lol

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What's more insulting are barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

Huge +1

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally.

These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally.

These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

Multitude is a relative term. Putting it in perspective, there are actually very few absolute morons that come onto the forum. We see the few of them because we all shine our lights on them(so to speak). The forum is still averaging 80+ (closer to 100) new registrants every month. We might have seen a dozen, to twenty, real maroons in the last few years. I would say the idiots are outnumbered greatly. And they (the idiots) seem to get weeded out pretty quickly. Just my biased opinion. Like I say, put 5000 people in the same room and this is what we get.....I might have rose colored glasses on but I say more than 99% of the board are good people....which still leaves room for a few idiots .

[bobbyw8469]

YEA!!! I did not make the "idiot" team!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

YEA!!! I did not make the "idiot" team!

Are you sure??? Check the list again...you did quite well this past year to not make the team!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally.



These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.



Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.



John

Easy john...have that second cup of coffee!

It is what it is, John. Calling people idiots is a strong accusation. Although I know who you are mostly talking about, a lot do not. I am not sensitive to what most people say, but I do not fault someone if they have an opposing opinion.

Love ya


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Calling people idiots is a strong accusation. Although I know who you are mostly talking about, a lot do not. I am not sensitive to what most people say, but I do not fault someone if they have an opposing opinion.

Pretty much my stance Mike. As mentioned by just about everyone else, we all appreciate the knowledge and red flags other board members provide. With that knowledge comes a measure of comfort (even security) when buying, which leads to more buyin. To me more buying=strong hobby. I know my own buying has spiked since joining the board, and I attribute much of this directly to board knowledge, enthusiasm, and to the ecclectic sets, I've been exposed to. I think as a whole this site is great for hobby health.

That said, I just think it's generally in poor taste to make broad "us and them" statements, where a line is drawn in the sand and "us" is on the righteous side, while "them" is on the wrong (newbie or low IQ or whatever). I think this can possibilty turn off would be member/collectors, or make some hesitant to ask what may be perceived as a dumb question. And not much to be gained buy fewer potential buyers. With regards to people being considered "too sensitive", this is roughly the same logic a school yard bully uses after he makes a kid cry. These types of comments/generalizations don't affect me, I just don't like to see people marginalized (hated and often stepped in when older guys would over-haze our pledges in college).. Heck, if I were truly worried about not being perceived as smart enough, I'd be curled up in a ball on my floor. I've been surrounded by degrees and "smart" people since birth- PHD/near astronaut dad, MD/JD surgeon sister, and now 5 of the 8 of my spouse/sibling/siblings in-law have JDs and the other two have master's. "Oh no, I'm the only one without a fancy degree??".

That said, I'm most impressed by those who are smart and impressive yet humble. This is why the sports world loves guys like Barry Sanders, and winces when it hears Jameous (no idea how to spell) Winston's post game speach. Many on this board are very smart, very accomplished, very successful, have amazing cardboard (which I love looking at daily!) and theoretically may be sitting on perch tall enough to look down and judge the others. On the flip side, this position gives you an opportunity to show great class to those less less knowledgeable or accomplished in this hobby.

Wow... I've already spoken far more than intended and need to get back to work. Time to tune out for a bit.

One last thing- Matty C, I highly doubt you were truly saying you will leave... but I hope not because your pickups on the postwar side are the Sport Center top 10 of the board.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Pretty much my stance Mike. As mentioned by just about everyone else, we all appreciate the knowledge and red flags other board members provide. With that knowledge comes a measure of comfort (even security) when buying, which leads to more buyin. To me more buying=strong hobby. I know my own buying has spiked since joining the board, and I attribute much of this directly to board knowledge, enthusiasm, and to the ecclectic sets, I've been exposed to. I think as a whole this site is great for hobby health.

That said, I just think it's generally in poor taste to make broad "us and them" statements, where a line is drawn in the sand and "us" is on the righteous side, while "them" is on the wrong (newbie or low IQ or whatever). I think this can possibilty turn off would be member/collectors, or make some hesitant to ask what may be perceived as a dumb question. And not much to be gained buy fewer potential buyers. With regards to people being considered "too sensitive", this is roughly the same logic a school yard bully uses after he makes a kid cry. These types of comments/generalizations don't affect me, I just don't like to see people marginalized (hated and often stepped in when older guys would over-haze our pledges in college).. Heck, if I were truly worried about not being perceived as smart enough, I'd be curled up in a ball on my floor. I've been surrounded by degrees and "smart" people since birth- PHD/near astronaut dad, MD/JD surgeon sister, and now 5 of the 8 of my spouse/sibling/siblings in-law have JDs and the other two have master's. "Oh no, I'm the only one without a fancy degree??".

That said, I'm most impressed by those who are smart and impressive yet humble. This is why the sports world loves guys like Barry Sanders, and winces when it hears Jameous (no idea how to spell) Winston's post game speach. Many on this board are very smart, very accomplished, very successful, have amazing cardboard (which I love looking at daily!) and theoretically may be sitting on perch tall enough to look down and judge the others. On the flip side, this position gives you an opportunity to show great class to those less less knowledgeable or accomplished in this hobby.

Wow... I've already spoken far more than intended and need to get back to work. Time to tune out for a bit.

One last thing- Matty C, I highly doubt you were truly saying you will leave... but I hope not because your pickups on the postwar side are the Sport Center top 10 of the board.

Could someone please send me the Cliff Notes.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

Grade A idiot for sure, but the entertainment value cannot be denied

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Grade A idiot for sure, but the entertainment value cannot be denied

Agree not going to lie some very funny train wrecks as the place has grown. Once again a generalized statement isn’t directed at anyone personally most know the types of members I’m referring too as I outlined above.

However if that needs to be explained to you or you feel slighted or upset by a simple comment made on an internet forum…well to take a Jeff Foxworthy approach then you just might be an idiot.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

Hmmm..I should re check my Mensa score/rating now... wait...I think I'm a member of Densa?...

Ricky Y

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

I resent that. I lowered the IQ on here by AT LEAST 20 points.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

Barry,

You're preaching to the choir. I assume that there are many who don't appreciate the time we spent in school diagramming sentences.

Ken

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I resent that. I lowered the IQ on here by AT LEAST 20 points.

Lol!

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

I'd call that above average.... since the country itself is down about 20

[Cardboard Junkie]

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

Right Dave, R & R in Pattaya

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

We abide the so-called viciousness of the forum as, without it, of what would our lives consist other than this hobby? Probably, the usual, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback."
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kcohen

We abide the so-called viciousness of the forum as, without it, of what would our lives consist other than this hobby? Probably, the usual, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback."
.

Flashback? Cheapskate!! Send me your address Ken. No need to rely on flashbacks for good times .

As far as IQ, if I am one of the 47% does that make mine 47?