Help with Goodwin Cobb Blank Back

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm going to win this card cheap!

Jeff that's not nice you know how sensitive I am.....

[Blunder19]

Any examples of a non southern leaguer with 2 confirmed blank backs?

I'm beginning to worry this card is not legit.

If the winner of the card determines the card is altered, would the auction house be responsible to reimburse the winner?

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

If the winner of the card determines the card is altered, would the auction house be responsible to reimburse the winner?

Lol.

[ullmandds]

def looks suspicious to me...I really don't like the edges of the card as well as the unusual little outward piece of paper jutting out of the lower left...just strange?

[4815162342]

If the winner of the card determines the card is altered, would the auction house be responsible to reimburse the winner?

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Lol.

I believe it would be the TPG's responsibility.

[z28jd]

I don't follow blank backs close enough to know if more than one exists of any non-SL card, but I will say that it shouldn't be impossible. We know cards were printed multiple times on the same sheet and you would have to assume if someone is keeping a scrap card, they were more likely to save a Cobb than some common player. Two could exist just from going to the same person off the same sheet. Also, the cut/size of a card shouldn't matter since they weren't necessarily factory cut. That being said, I don't trust blank backs unless I've seen them in person or someone I trust a lot.

[E93]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I don't follow blank backs close enough to know if more than one exists of any non-SL card, but I will say that it shouldn't be impossible. We know cards were printed multiple times on the same sheet and you would have to assume if someone is keeping a scrap card, they were more likely to save a Cobb than some common player. Two could exist just from going to the same person off the same sheet. Also, the cut/size of a card shouldn't matter since they weren't necessarily factory cut. That being said, I don't trust blank backs unless I've seen them in person or someone I trust a lot.

+1

It is hard for me to draw definitive conclusions just from the scan on this one.
JimB

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Any examples of a non southern leaguer with 2 confirmed blank backs?

I'm beginning to worry this card is not legit.

If the winner of the card determines the card is altered, would the auction house be responsible to reimburse the winner?

I've seen scans of two different cards of Kroh.

But I think that you should judge the card not based on whether or not it should exist but on what others have talked about which is what the card looks like in relation to other T206 blank backs.

Also, the dimensions have nothing to do with it since it was hand cut. I've seen some oversize and some undersize with all being hand cut in my opinion. Even ones that look sharp and clean and even show signs of handcutting to me.

Anyway, I'm not offering an opinion as to legitimacy because I haven't seen it in hand. But just wanted to put these thoughts out there.

[Tao_Moko]

It is clearly altered and the slab should reflect it.

[Leon]

For me it's too hard to tell from the scan. There is a distinct possibility the rough parts we see on the back could be from album removal. I do see some smooth spots too, which to me, are a good sign. I wouldn't give more of an opinion unless i could personally loupe it.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by Leon

For me it's too hard to tell from the scan. There is a distinct possibility the rough parts we see on the back could be from album removal. I do see some smooth spots too, which to me, are a good sign. I wouldn't give more of an opinion unless i could personally loupe it.

After 29 years of collecting and handling T206 it can sometimes be too easy to jump to conclusions. Didn't take long to assume that this card is altered/unintentionally compromised, but I will hold a tiny place for all of the identifiers to be explained and this to be a true blank back. Just so I'm on track - are we suggesting that this card was potentially cut and pasted into a book and then removed with residue remaining on the back? Is it hand cut scrap, factory cut scrap, or trimmed at a later date? If there is residue and the grader recognized it than can that information be obtained? Would be helpful info now that it's slabbed and cannot be touched.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

After 29 years of collecting and handling T206 it can sometimes be too easy to jump to conclusions. Didn't take long to assume that this card is altered/unintentionally compromised, but I will hold a tiny place for all of the identifiers to be explained and this to be a true blank back. Just so I'm on track - are we suggesting that this card was potentially cut and pasted into a book and then removed with residue remaining on the back? Is it hand cut scrap, factory cut scrap, or trimmed at a later date? If there is residue and the grader recognized it than can that information be obtained? Would be helpful info now that it's slabbed and cannot be touched.

are we suggesting that this card was potentially cut and pasted into a book and then removed with residue remaining on the back?

Yes, it's a possibility

Is it hand cut scrap?

If it's a blank back -Yes.

factory cut scrap?

Probably not. Too uneven and it doesn't appear at all factory cut.

trimmed at a later date?

If it's a fake blank back- Yes. If real? still possibly yes.

If there is residue and the grader recognized it than can that information be obtained?

As far as I know that information isn't available. I don't know if the companies keep any notes about observations during grading.
==============
I'm not convinced about the card itself, I'd really want to see it in person before spending much on it. The damage on the front isn't all that bothersome. I've seen it before and it might be bug damage. The fuzz on the back is the problem, either it's scrapbook residue, or remnants of the original back.


Steve B

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

... Just so I'm on track - are we suggesting that this card was potentially cut and pasted into a book and then removed with residue remaining on the back? ....

Yes sort of, I am suggesting that it is possible the rough part is from scrapbook removal, damaging the paper of an otherwise blank back. And that damaged part is the rough area(s) we see. I have personally damaged cards that way, more than once. (scrapbook removal) I am not saying that is what happened here, only that it is possible. As I said, too hard for me to give a better opinion from the scan/pic shown. And if experts are more sure than I, then so be it. I don't study T206 as much as many in this thread, nor do I want to .

[MVSNYC]

Jamie, I could be wrong, but I never thought that there wasn't blank back dupes, meaning to my knowledge there could be multiple blank backs of the same player.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Any examples of a non southern leaguer with 2 confirmed blank backs?

I'm beginning to worry this card is not legit.

If the winner of the card determines the card is altered, would the auction house be responsible to reimburse the winner?

Currently have a situation with this exact problem. Will expand later tonight. It falls on the grading company.

[buymycards]

The scan on the Goodwin website is pretty good. To me, the back appears to have glue residue. The edges of the card seem to be hand cut, which MAY indicate that the card was cut from a scrapbook and PERHAPS soaked to remove the scrapbook paper. Whether or not the original back is still attached to the original front is impossible to tell without removing the card from the slab. I would think that with SGC's experience they would not have graded the card if the back was gone. Maybe.

Rick

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The scan on the Goodwin website is pretty good. To me, the back appears to have glue residue. The edges of the card seem to be hand cut, which MAY indicate that the card was cut from a scrapbook and PERHAPS soaked to remove the scrapbook paper. Whether or not the original back is still attached to the original front is impossible to tell without removing the card from the slab. I would think that with SGC's experience they would not have graded the card if the back was gone. Maybe.

Rick

SGC graded an E97 Black and White that didn't have a back, it was skinned as well.

[danmckee]

Here is a true blank back, it is smooth and just missing the print.

Please judge for yourselves on the Cobb:

[ullmandds]

Not to excuse sgc... But at least the
E97 should have a blank back

Originally Posted by danmckee

SGC graded an E97 Black and White that didn't have a back, it was skinned as well.

[wonkaticket]

I agree with Dan everyone I’ve owned held or seen have been very smooth to the touch and evenly toned like the ones below. I don’t see them with raised fibers rough patches or odd sections of dirty and clean I have however seen many skinned cards with these qualities.



My rule of thumb on these is simple if you look at the item and then begin to hypothesize situations to explain possible issues with the card i.e. well it could have been in a scrapbook or it may have had water damage at one time etc. You should stop and take a step back. These things should just look right at a glance IMO.

I know a board member owns this card and he’s an honest guy so perhaps he will chime in and give more details the history etc.

P.S. I got a PM from a person involved with the sale, who says they think the card was glued in an album at one time and that's all that spot is....well noted but again I think it looks off.