FINAL----HOF Ballot- Submit your own!

[toyman55]

I am sure I'm not the oldest here but at age 65 I have been a basball fan since I was 7 years old. As a fan I profess though a Dodger fan I love all the teams and all the players. I ask those of you who are against the PED players what were you doing the day Mark McGwire broke the home record and how did you react? Yes Bonds and Clemens and McGwire and Sosa took a substance the sports writers knew about, the owners knew about, even the players knew but yet none of them and my guess is that those here never stood up and yelled "HEY THEY ARE CHEATING". Shoeless Joe Jackson cheated yet many here want him in the hall. Pete Rose bet on baseball but in my book deserves the hall. I VOTE for the PED player who spent many of their years playing fairly to get into the Hall. That's my opinion and I respect yours.

Originally Posted by toyman55

I ask those of you who are against the PED players what were you doing the day Mark McGwire broke the home record and how did you react?

I was yelling HEY THEY'RE CHEATING, and I was doing it all year long in 1998. A friend and I had an email dialogue going throughout the year discussing what a shame it all was. I remember sending him scans of McGwire's and Sosa's earlier baseball cards and the two of us joking about the 60 pounds of muscle they miraculously added. I remember us joking about Sosa's inability to reach down for ground balls hit to him in the outfield; I remember feeling badly for the Maris family when it was obvious that the HR record would not just be broken but obliterated.

My friend and I had a similar email dialogue 3 years later regarding Bonds, only I rooted FOR Bonds. Because I thought it further invalidated the "record", and because I figured it might result in some kind of investigation and change, which it eventually did.

Later, when Bonds was chasing Aaron, I was convinced there was a nod-and-a-wink among managers to walk Bonds like crazy in order to slow down his progress - to delay his setting the record until they could find just cause to suspend him, or until his body broke down and he retired. Sadly, Bonds prevailed, however MLB did manage to keep him from 3,000 hits and possibly the all-time runs, RBIs and EBH records.

[toyman55]

I fully see your point. I myself believe the fans were entitled to a game without cheating as well but you or I or any of the fans could not have stopped it. Yes we all knew what was going on but MLB and the commissioner and the owners and the baseball writers and announcers who could have made a difference didn't! Clemens and Bonds among others were some of the greatest athletes prior to PED. I believe Clemens as well as Bonds and others were like kids in a Candy store in that baseball is a short career and this was a way to stay in the limelight longer and to be productive. YES I thought it was wrong but I also think there is a place in the hall for these athletes.

[HRBAKER]

They had it all before they started. It was their choice and now what they are dealing with is part of the bargain they made. Nobody but their pride, ego and greed made them do it. Not the fans, not the Commissioner, not the writers, not the non-doping teammates. Your point is a good one about no one stepping forward (sans Canseco for multiple purposes) but they each are responsible for their own behavior. The players are responsible for the mess, not the writers.

[toyman55]

Jeff, I don't want to sound like what they did is right because it wasn't. I do think that at the time Mcgwire and Sosa were banging out homers fans were flocking to the stadiums filling seats and not only making owners rich but if you recall fan attendance had been dwindling and interest fading. Point being no one in baseball wanted to say anything because they were saving and more important bringing back fan interest. Maybe we should toss Gaylord Perry and Burlleigh Grimes, Ed Walsh and a few others out of the Hall for throwing a spitball! That was cheating as well. Do you think Don Drysdale who was infamous for throwing at batters and hitting them? Don hit 154 batters, the great Walter Johnson hit 205, Nolan Ryan 158 BUT Koufax who pitched in pain isn't even in the top ten of hitting batters. Do you think some of those guys cheated. My point is for me and me alone, I cheered all the PED guys at the time and was happy to see new and younger fans coming out and watching the game. I say cut some slack, vote them in and if you have to say they cheated for a period of time then say it and get over it.

[HRBAKER]

What were we supposed to do? Stop going to the games or cheering bc some of the players decided to cheat? I don't feel compelled to cut them any slack just bc I kept going to or watching the games. Not arguing with you at all, but this is on them alone to me.