Grading Question

[vintagetoppsguy]

No disrespect to anybody, but some of you need to educate yourselves on this matter. The card has not been tampered with. It's the same card that sold in Memory Lane 4/4/09 and the same card that sold in MileHigh 2/14/08. Here are the scans...

Memory Lane 4/4/2009...


Mile High 2/14/2008...


Same card today as it was pictured nearly six years ago. Nothing's changed. Again, no disrespect to anyone, but to infer that a Top Rated seller with over 2400 feedback (all 100% positive) is selling tampered/replaced cards is very negligent IMO.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No disrespect to anybody, but some of you need to educate yourselves on this matter. The card has not been tampered with. It's the same card that sold in Memory Lane 4/4/09 and the same card that sold in MileHigh 2/14/08. Here are the scans...

Memory Lane 4/4/2009...


Mile High 2/14/2008...


Same card today as it was pictured nearly six years ago. Nothing's changed. Again, no disrespect to anyone, but to infer that a Top Rated seller with over 2400 feedback (all 100% positive) is selling tampered/replaced cards is very negligent IMO.

You are right David, the cards look identical in the scans....and except for the frosting along the right edge of the 09 auction card and the ebay card being slightly different appearing in the scans, the holders look identical.

This may just be a coincidence, but also sold in the same April 09 auction was a Fisk RC that this same seller is now offering for sale also. The image from the 09 auction may have been photo shopped as several print defects on the front of the Fisk RC offered on ebay do not appear on the 09 image. On the ebay card, when the image is enlarged on ebay, there is a light scratch(could be on the case, but to appears to be on the card) to the left of Cooper's head and a small print defect on the "R" in First Base" under Cooper's image. Again, this could be coincidence and caused by the editing of the image at the auction house and/or these defects may not be evident in the 09 image because of image quality.



For me, it is still hard to believe that either the Seaver with it's cut or the Fisk with the scratches and print defects were graded as 10s. If I were ever in the market for either of these cards in that high of a grade, these two 10's would not be my choice.

I am certainly not accusing the seller of anything.....he may have received these cards as is and is acting on good faith in selling these. He may be selling these cards for a consignor for all we know.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

For me, it is still hard to believe that either the Seaver with it's cut or the Fisk with the scratches and print defects were graded as 10s. If I were ever in the market for either of these cards in that high of a grade, these two 10's would not be my choice.

Exactly. No way is that card (or Dimitri's) worthy of a 10. IMO, the best either should have received is 9 MC (and that would be stretching it). That's why I stay away from PSA cards. I know some people like them, it's just a personal choice for me. If I'm looking to buy a graded card, I feel like I can get an SGC card that is a much nicer card and usually for a lot less than it's PSA counterpart.

[glynparson]

card cut square but picture is on an angle it is for cards so off center they are usually 95-5 or worse on front and 100-0 or worse on back. They generally do not slab cards that are the other type of miscut where they have abnormal shapes, they occasionally make exceptions to this rule and they would have to explain the whens and whys of that. I do not think the card deserves a 10 but to say it deserves an mc qualifier is not correct either.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Exactly. No way is that card (or Dimitri's) worthy of a 10. IMO, the best either should have received is 9 MC (and that would be stretching it). That's why I stay away from PSA cards. I know some people like them, it's just a personal choice for me. If I'm looking to buy a graded card, I feel like I can get an SGC card that is a much nicer card and usually for a lot less than it's PSA counterpart.

When building my sets, I bought 8's for both of these cards, and IMO both show nicer than these two cards in question, at least in my eyes. While I collect both raw and graded cards, like many I prefer raw. As others have said in this thread, when buying a graded card buy the card, not the grade. With my sharp looking 8's, I literally spent pennies on the dollar(as compared to these two sloppy looking 10s) to have two great looking cards

[MBMiller25]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

When building my sets, I bought 8's for both of these cards, and IMO both show nicer than these two cards in question, at least in my eyes. While I collect both raw and graded cards, like many I prefer raw. As others have said in this thread, when buying a graded card buy the card, not the grade. With my sharp looking 8's, I literally spent pennies on the dollar(as compared to these two sloppy looking 10s) to have two great looking cards

This may be an incredibly ignorant comment, but I bet you appreciate those 8's of heck of a lot more than whomever ends up with that 10. When it takes time, effort and careful budgeting to find and afford a card you really want, in my opinion, you have a heck of a lot more appreciation for that card versus the guy with deep pockets, that is fortunate enough to be able to buy anything he wants.

I know when I find something that I want, and it requires me to sell off cards that I really don't want to sell, or save the money to purchase "said" card, I appreciate that card, so much more than some of the other cards in my collection.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by MBMiller25

This may be an incredibly ignorant comment, but I bet you appreciate those 8's of heck of a lot more than whomever ends up with that 10. When it takes time, effort and careful budgeting to find and afford a card you really want, in my opinion, you have a heck of a lot more appreciation for that card versus the guy with deep pockets, that is fortunate enough to be able to buy anything he wants.

I know when I find something that I want, and it requires me to sell off cards that I really don't want to sell, or save the money to purchase "said" card, I appreciate that card, so much more than some of the other cards in my collection.

It is not ignorant at all Matt....I absolutely appreciate the 8 more than the 10. Besides the obvious reason of affordability and being able to find an example in my price range, the greatest reason for appreciating an 8 more than the a 10 would be that I am willing to bet that if the flips were covered on both and I viewed them next to each other at a 1/4's arm length(or possibly closer) I would not be able to tell the 8 from the 10. At least I feel good about paying pennies on the dollar for a card I could not easily differentiate between it or the much higher priced example. Based on the subjectivity of grades at this level, on any given day the 8 and 10 could have both graded 9s.