1991 Topps / DS Packaging

[tulsaboy]

I have boxes and loose packs of both wax and cellophane. Have no idea about the DS cards. But I know that at some point mid year here in Oklahoma we started seeing the cellophane ones. Not near as much fun to open.

[cincyredlegs]

My understanding is there is no way to distinguish from a regular 91 Topps wax pack and a DS pack. The only sure fire way is to open it.

Mark

[Zach Wheat]

There actually is a way to eliminate it as a regular issue 1991 Topps pack; however, there is no way to conclusively prove it is a DS pack with certainty. They used 2 types of ink in the production run that are similar but not identical.

Z Wheat

[ALR-bishop]

Zach--If there is a way to eliminate it as a a regular pack, what would be left besides a DS pack ? Possible counterfeit ? In know there is different printing/ink on many 91 cards, is the same true of the packs ?

[Zach Wheat]

Most of the 1991 Topps cards were printed with 2 different variations of one of the colors of ink. There was a previous post on Net54 which noted this, but I can't seem to find the original post.

Most - but not all - of the Desert Shield cards I've checked were printed with only 1 variation of this ink. The ink is actually visible - and distinguishable from the other type of ink - through the packaging. It is hard to pick up but you can clearly make out the differences.

This does not eliminate packs that aren't Desert Shield packs entirely, but greatly reduces the chances of picking up a regular issue pack. I just scanned 140 DS cards and only 2 cards had the earlier version of ink.

Z Wheat

[ALR-bishop]

Ok, so you are scanning for the cards themselves, not the pack itself ?

[Zach Wheat]

Yes, correct. You can see the ink under certain conditions through the wrapper which means that there is a correspondingly greater or lesser chance that the pack contains DS cards.

[4reals]

Ben, what Mr. Wheat is referring to is the reflective red "glow" ink used on the back of some of the 91 Topps cards. If you shine a black light on the back of regular 91 Topps cards you will find some that glow and some that do not. This is from two different types of ink used during the printing process. I know you're somewhat aware of this from your 91 Topps Nolan Ryan post back in November. I first learned about this variation (some may argue that definition) after reading an unsuspecting post made by Steve B years ago. It was glossed over at the time (at least no one replied to it) but it surely caught my eye. I literally became obsessed with understanding which cards it affected and which cards it did not, researching it for the last couple of years, buying thousands and thousands of 91 cards, breaking different product from different packaging. Last September I bought a house and packed away all that product away and haven't unpacked it since (on purpose). Taking a break from it snapped me out of the OCD spiral I was in. I'm done researching it...it's time to share what I learned and pass the baton, letting others run with it. Zach was one of the first I decided to share this glow ink info with, which I did recently after reading his passion for DS cards.

All of that back story to tell you this, one of the most important nuggets of info I discovered was that ALL 91 DS cards were printed with glow reflective ink. In my opinion this was a huge discovery because of the existing problem with counterfeit DS cards. If you shine a blacklight on the back of a DS card and it does not glow it would mean (in my unprofessional opinion) that it is a counterfeit. Having said that, one must keep in mind that this is not a fool proof way of eliminating all counterfeits because a counterfeiter may also use a regular 91 Topps card with glow ink to make a counterfeit. It is at least a new way to weed some of the counterfeits out.

So, hopefully Zach doesn't mind me speaking for him when I say, that's what he meant when he said...

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Most - but not all - of the Desert Shield cards I've checked were printed with only 1 variation of this ink. The ink is actually visible - and distinguishable from the other type of ink - through the packaging. It is hard to pick up but you can clearly make out the differences.

This does not eliminate packs that aren't Desert Shield packs entirely, but greatly reduces the chances of picking up a regular issue pack.

When I have more time I will start a 1991 Topps Glow thread and reveal many more of my findings in detail along with a master checklist I created. It has grown quite big when you consider the compound variations of errors, sheet codes, and the bold and faint logo on the back.

Here's a pic

[ALR-bishop]

I have a Desert Shield set, and they do all glow. And I can confirm I have both glow and non glow cards in my regular 91 set.

I have mentioned before that I think the 1991 set has more variations and or print defects than any other Topps set by far. At one time I was thinking of trying to put together a true master set and checklist, but have given up. I think I do have all the bold 40 emblem cards and many of the front and back differences. But am not sure precisely how many of the cards can be found with glow ink or if the entire set can be made in all non glow ink. Nor did I get very far on the back sheet page code variants.

If someone out there has what they think is a complete master checklist, I would love to see it

[steve B]

Thanks for posting a picture! I've been needing to take one for a long time now, and just never did get to it.

And good to know the DS only come one way.

Also good to know the old post got people looking.

91Topps is a massively complex set. I got partway through making a list of the stuff I found, then got sidetracked. The backs come a number of ways beyond the dark/light logo fluorescent/non fluorescent stuff.

I believe all the cards will come with.
Light logo fluorescent
light logo non fluorescent

And that all the dark logo cards can also be found both ways.

The tougher ones are less clear.
There's a version of ink which is slightly fluorescent, appearing a very dark red under a blacklight. I've only found a few, and the look is subtle enough to miss. I think the whole set can be found this way, but I don't have enough cards to be sure. The light I used at the time was a fairly strong dual band one made for stamp collectors. I'm not sure if the lower power lights will make it visible. I've switched to a lower power light since the big one is broken and costs around $150 to replace. The big light was enough to easily see the normal difference without the room being dark an overcast day was plenty.

On a handful, the cardboard itself fluoresces, usually a light purplish white. It's not entirely consistent, and I have few enough of those that I can't rule out some sort of contamination or staining. Either could happen after production, or during printing or even in the cardboard making process.

I haven't looked at the fronts much at all with the blacklight.
But I have a couple cards where the glosscoat fluoresces a faint green.


Playing with the blacklight can be loads of fun, but anyone doing it should limit their exposure. It's not great for the eyes, and for some people longer exposure can cause headaches.

Originally Posted by 4reals

Ben, what Mr. Wheat is referring to is the reflective red "glow" ink used on the back of some of the 91 Topps cards. If you shine a black light on the back of regular 91 Topps cards you will find some that glow and some that do not. This is from two different types of ink used during the printing process. I know you're somewhat aware of this from your 91 Topps Nolan Ryan post back in November. I first learned about this variation (some may argue that definition) after reading an unsuspecting post made by Steve B years ago. It was glossed over at the time (at least no one replied to it) but it surely caught my eye. I literally became obsessed with understanding which cards it affected and which cards it did not, researching it for the last couple of years, buying thousands and thousands of 91 cards, breaking different product from different packaging. Last September I bought a house and packed away all that product away and haven't unpacked it since (on purpose). Taking a break from it snapped me out of the OCD spiral I was in. I'm done researching it...it's time to share what I learned and pass the baton, letting others run with it. Zach was one of the first I decided to share this glow ink info with, which I did recently after reading his passion for DS cards.

All of that back story to tell you this, one of the most important nuggets of info I discovered was that ALL 91 DS cards were printed with glow reflective ink. In my opinion this was a huge discovery because of the existing problem with counterfeit DS cards. If you shine a blacklight on the back of a DS card and it does not glow it would mean (in my unprofessional opinion) that it is a counterfeit. Having said that, one must keep in mind that this is not a fool proof way of eliminating all counterfeits because a counterfeiter may also use a regular 91 Topps card with glow ink to make a counterfeit. It is at least a new way to weed some of the counterfeits out.

So, hopefully Zach doesn't mind me speaking for him when I say, that's what he meant when he said...





When I have more time I will start a 1991 Topps Glow thread and reveal many more of my findings in detail along with a master checklist I created. It has grown quite big when you consider the compound variations of errors, sheet codes, and the bold and faint logo on the back.

Here's a pic