Just how much does condition affect value?

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Well, condition directly impacts demand, so it does affect value. As for collecting...I always describe myself as a low to ultra-low grade collector. I don't know that I've ever not bought a card for condition reasons...only for price reasons. I don't collect memorabilia at all, but I understand that people want their game used stuff to look game used...that's sort of the way I feel about cards. Cracker Jacks are a good example...I want them to look like they came out of a box of cracker jack.

To get back to the question...condition is much more important on cards that are easy to find. VG may get you 10-20% of book in common post-war and poors may get 50-1000% of book in rare pre-wars.

i disagree. most people would love to have a higher grade card, if they could afford it. more people want a nicer card, then a lower grade card. that is why nicer cards go for more money. they are more desirable.

the price, affects demand at that price. the condition that they buy is a bi product of the supply and demand curve with respect to the price at the given condition.

there are however, people that believe beaters have character. so obviously it needs to be said, that not everyone thinks the same way. your example of a rare prewar card and the value for it, is really driven by the number of them. the fact that they are rare, and the number of people want them, is high when compared to the quantities.

as an extreme example and also highly unlikely: a card could be very very rare, if no one will buy the card, then its 'worthless'. you can't sell it or trade it, and consequently it has no value.

kevin

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

more people want a nicer card, then a lower grade card.
kevin

I don't know of many people who have a nice example of card that get a lesser condition example of the same card unless they are hoarding. Does this really happen?

[1880nonsports]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I don't know of many people who have a nice example of card that get a lesser condition example of the same card unless they are hoarding. Does this really happen?

for any number of reasons I have graded cards in my collection that I look to DOWNGRADE - uniformity, minor fears of altered very high grade cards, I can appreciate an "EX" card, and nmt or better N cards sell for big bucks. Often I can buy 2/3 ex/exmt cards to complete a set for the price of nmt card.

[aelefson]

I think Mike was referring to another poster's use of then, as opposed to than. Back on topic, I prefer low graded cards (trimmed, tears, paper loss, holes, whatever) as I can collect more of what I want that way.

As to value, it always depends on rarity, but also the type of card itself, and whether or not a card is graded by a grading company. For example, Old Judges with back writing are technically lower grade, but most OJ collectors care very little about the state of the back (other than if it is skinned or re-backed). Much more important is the clarity of the image on the front of the card. To the grading companies, a weak front image and a clean back earns a higher grade than a strong front and writing on the back.

Alan

[bbcard1]

For my T206 set, I decided to go with a nice set that I hope to eventually upgrade to an average of about a 2.5. I am probably happy with the scarce variations in a decent 1. I am always in the process of upgrading. Though I have finished up my 520 set, I probably only have maybe five cards that would go a 5 or better (Shag, Ryan, Young throwing, and a couple of commons), but wear on a T206 set looks appropriate in my opinion. I am working on a 1961 set and am no settling for anything less than ex. For some reason, that set only looks nice to me in a nice grade.

[Exhibitman]

I collect almost exclusively in low grade.

There isn't really a hard and fast rule you can make for how they price out. If you are referring to a mainstream card that can be readily located in a variety of conditions then the cards are virtually worthless except for the superstars, who can be had for less than 10% of the price of a near mint version if you are willing to wait a bit. I try to pay even less, just to make it interesting. Like a beater T206 red bg Cobb. I waited for quite a while until I found one for around $100 less than 'market' and bought it. 'Junk' boxes at the National can yield even better deals. Also depends on how FUBARed you are willing to get with a card.

There is no rule on pricing true rarities. It is strictly what the buyer will pay. I pick a price I would like to get for a card like that and tell prospective buyers who want to dicker about it if you can find the card somewhere else, buy it.

[E93]

Of course condition affects value. Look in any price guide and see how values change depending on condition. That said, the effect of condition on value goes down in relative proportion to the scarcity and general desirability of the card. In other words, if it is hard to find in any condition, then condition matters less to most buyers.
JimB

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

the price, affects demand at that price. the condition that they buy is a bi product of the supply and demand curve with respect to the price at the given condition.

kevin

I think that's technically incorrect. Price impacts quantity demanded, not demand. If you change the condition of the card, you're technically shifting the demand curve out, not moving along the demand curve. Where you draw the demand curve depends on many things, but one of those things is condition. If you're thinking of the intersection of supply and demand determining price, a higher grade card has a demand curve to the right of a lower grade card (greater quantity demanded at all prices).

[MattyC]

This is an interesting discussion, and I think it is important to define a key term here; by "condition," are we meaning "grade assigned by a TPG?"

Because then I would very respectfully offer a counterpoint to these two statements above:

1. "...most people would love to have a higher grade card, if they could afford it."

2. "I don't know of many people who have a nice example of card that get a lesser condition example of the same card unless they are hoarding. Does this really happen?"

I can afford higher grade examples of every card I own, but I choose not to upgrade when I have an example that has great eye appeal-- especially when that eye appeal exceeds the given grade.

When centering and eye appeal are there for me, I see no reason to spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for an upgrade of corners or edges. I am an eye appeal guy all the way, which condition factors into, but primarily (for me) hinges upon clarity of central image and centering.

If we are indeed talking about a TPG's assigned grade when we say condition, I find myself most impressed with collectors who find a 5-grade card that looks like a 7-grade.

As to downgrading to a lesser condition card, again I think it all depends on what one means by condition. I have downgraded 9s that had poor centering to 8s or 8.5s or in some cases 7s that, to me, looked far superior in terms of eye appeal to the 9.

So I guess the salient point for me is that sometimes eye appeal, technical condition, and a TPG's assessment of condition are not all equal. Really cool topic.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by obcmac

I think that's technically incorrect. Price impacts quantity demanded, not demand. If you change the condition of the card, you're technically shifting the demand curve out, not moving along the demand curve. Where you draw the demand curve depends on many things, but one of those things is condition. If you're thinking of the intersection of supply and demand determining price, a higher grade card has a demand curve to the right of a lower grade card (greater quantity demanded at all prices).

sorry, yes. you are right. quantity demanded was the right wording. many moons have passed since those days.

its a more dynamic problem than that. if you have a card in prestine condition and no one wants to buy it, then its worthless. if you have the exact same card in terrible condition and no one wants to buy it then the its worthless.

if the card is so desirable, people will buy it in any condition that they can get it in, then condition means absolutely nothing also.

in both of those scenarios things break down.

i think most would say that the price of the nicest card is really the single biggest determining factor in why they are purchasing the cards they purchase. i didn't set out to collect the monster in 8+ condition because i will never be able to afford it. i picked the nicest grade that i think i can reasonably afford. if i could buy a 10 in my price range i would buy it instantly. if i had to buy a 1 because its the only thing i could find, i would do that also.

i believe the people that collect beaters are right there with me or they would much rather spend some of that money on other things as condition is not a factor for them, so long as they have an example of the card that they want.

kevin