Another Probstein LOL

[Batter67up]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

[ullmandds]

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

There are a lot more people on the board, no doubt. Wild Wild west? Far from it in my opinion. That doesn't mean you can just do things blindly. But I personally think that if you do your homework it's as close to perfectly safe as I know of, on such a venue. I am biased of course.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

Problem is, that when a Ruth goes off in a PWCC or Probstein auction, the price is inflated -- which influences the value that you would place on the card when you make a best offer.

[bobbyw8469]

I think it all boils down to unrealistic expectations. Just because a card sold for $1,000 last week from a seller other than PWCC or Probstein DOES NOT make that exact same card worth $1,500 or more one week later with PWCC or Probstein as the seller!!!! Or does it??!?!??!?!?!??!!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that. Yeah. Sure, there are a few trolls here and there on N54. That said, there are lots of solid, committed, friendly collectors here who've got many years into the Hobby and are as passionate about their collections as can be. Everyone who shows up at our shows is evidence of that. If you're around SoCal in May when we do our next show, come on out and meet the gang. Or attend the National if you haven't and meet up with everyone there. Lots of good people...

I don't think flipping is bad. I think we're all flippers to some extent--I know I try to finance my collection that way--but the prevalence of auction houses as the means of selling cards with mass lotting that lumps dozens or even hundreds of cards into 'dealer friendly' lots increasingly dictates that we all end up flipping stuff.

The answer to shilling on eBay is not simple but there are mitigating measures that can be taken, which we've kicked around ad nauseum here already. First and foremost is exposure, which N54 does very well indeed.

[Batter67up]

I agree their are a lot of really good people on this board but as it grows like everything else in this world the scammers and let's make a quick buck people have grown in multiples and are just a turn-off in the hobby. They will come and go on this board and hopefully the quality collectors will stick it out. This hobby was built on collectors trading and purchasing cards they really want and exploited by people trying to make a quick buck or selling fake/counterfeit items. The TPG's have included themselves in the deception in the hobby by grading cards that are known to be trimmed and giving them a grade of 8. The accountability is just not there. Dealers using one price guide to buy from and a second to sell from? We are not going to grow the hobby with these actions. I have enjoyed this hobby and this forum but I made my original post because I really don't like what I have been seeing over the last year or so. I hate negativity and look forward to discussing the excitement of someone getting a card they really wanted.

Steve

[HRBAKER]

Follow the money.
When the dollars get big (and they have) along come the folks allergic to a honest day's work.

There are PLENTY of fine folks on this board but it is different than it used to be. And that's not all bad either.

We will all be flippers at some point.

[glynparson]

Are not new to this business and there are far less of both than in the late 1980s-mid 1990s when there were far more people attempting to make a buck selling cards. I also do not think there is more but actually less fraud than back then, in terms of counterfeits and alterations. Do these things still exist absolutely and they always will. That does not mean we should not expose fraud when we see it. There is more fraud in terms of shilling mainly because far more cards are now sold via auction then at any other time. Ps there are a ton of good people on this board and a few p.i.t.as.