Another Probstein LOL

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by deucetwins

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.

+1 I am proud to say I that have not bid on any Probstein items since it was confirmed that he condones consignors shilling their own items.

Originally Posted by calvindog

That we would have posters on this board complaining about discussions of this fraud is really mind-numbing...

+1 to this as well.

[ullmandds]

I also have not bid on any Probstein...or PWCC auctions since things have come to light...and if I were to I would scrutinize bidding history with a fine tooth comb.

To say bringing these issues up is not doing anything...is a waste of time...is just plain ignorant.

Seems to me the ones who keep standing up for the accused...are most likely those who have been benefitting from such activities?

[Sean1125]

People can assume anything they want, it doesn't mean it is true.

The consigners who don't mess with auctions far exceed those who do.

Why individuals let one, two, even ten auctions out of twenty to thirty thousand in a month affect what they think of Rick is beyond me. The bids are likely from the same few toxic individuals and I would think if pointed out they will either be spoken to and given a warning or banned all together. It didn't seem anyone actually pointed this one out until I had e-mailed Rick.

I would challenge any member here to find a card of mine that they think has an unnatural bidding history, you won't - every card I've ever auctioned I am comfortable with the risk of auction. I've had major "scores" where cards shatter VCP by 60%, 100% - I've had major losses where I've paid $1800 for something and net $1000... Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

[Gradedcardman]

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.

[nolemmings]

Why individuals let one, two, even ten auctions out of twenty to thirty thousand in a month affect what they think of Rick is beyond me.

So be it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.

You did the right thing. Karma is a killer. Those consignors that are shilling their own stuff will get their just dues. And I also agree with Sean somewhat. I will still bid on Probstein stuff and PWCC stuff but know that I will be very careful in doing so. My only concern with those 2 sellers is that they could maybe do a little more in banning ebayers that have crappy tendencies, which we have all seen. I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling. A little more diligence, when called attention to, is all I would ask for.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling.

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

I am in agreement David. As I said, I think the large ebay sellers need to do more to prevent fraud. By any of them not taking action, when pointed out, I can see your point.


And to Jeff- I would be surprised if Rick won the ball and shills, or has someone else shill, his own auctions. I am not saying that more doesn't need to be done. It does. And I also think these threads help expose issues. Anyone that doesn't see that should stick their head back in the sand.

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

What character? I am unfortunately a victim of his thanks to only seeing a very old post here talking mostly positively about him. I'm going to start a thread about my terrible experience with him. I've been to his "office" in Passaic where he lists his stuff. Once I get the whole thing together, I will post it. This guy belongs in prison for a number of reasons which I will bring up in that thread.

By the way, in the eyes of ethical people, if you witness a crime and do nothing to stop it, then you aren't that much better than the criminal.

There is a way to stop him. The shill bidding is most likely interstate fraud, which would involve the FBI. No one thought that crook Bill Mastro could be brought down. What happened to him? Everyone needs to file repeated complaints to the FBI, to the IRS, to their state's Attorney General. I would say local police, but they wouldn't do anything. Contact media outlets from the internet and other venues. He can be brought down very easily, but with time and with some effort. What happened to good old American know how? Was that outsourced as well? I am going to do my best to bring this trash down. The only way our government and law enforcement ever does anything is to shut up the people that constantly complain to them. If you keep complaining to the FBI, they will eventually begin watching him. It will be worth the effort in the end.

By the way, why would he stop allowing shilling if people keep bidding? It only makes him more money, and it's clear his world revolves around taking every penny he can from everyone. I for one will never do business with this trash again. I wish I had seen these threads about him instead of the ones praising him. I would have never consigned with him.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+1

[/B] I would love to hear his answer.

He ignores answering questions that expose him or put him in a negative light, so unless you ask him 15 times, he most likely will ignore it. That is obvious guilt.

[calvindog]

Yeah, Probstein is clean as a whistle. Here's a Christy Mathewson signed ball which ended on ebay just a couple days ago: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=370937104344

The ball sold for $8990, solely because the underbidder put in a bid at about $1600 above the third bidder for the ball, three days before the ebay auction ended -- and the underbidder just happens to bid in Probstein's auctions 94% of the time. Curiously, the underbidder's bid of $8890 is almost identical to what the ball sold for in the 2013 REA auction ($8887): http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...85.html#photos

My guess is that either the underbidder/shill bidder won the ball in the REA auction and didn't want to lose any money on the ebay sale which is why his placeholder bid was identical to the REA price -- or that Rick Probstein himself won the ball in REA and sold it in his own auction above, shilling his own ball.

I'll email Rick now and ask him if this ball was indeed his.

[Batter67up]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.