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[steve B]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

According to SMR, the Magie error in a PSA 4 is valued at $22,500.

One would think that a $20k + card would warrant a close inspection, especially the name portion of the caption, which alone makes the card infinitely more valuable than the corrected version.

I'm sure that more than one person at PSA examined the card. And they both whiffed. How the hell is this friggin' possible? Are they there to provide an expert opinion as to the authenticity and condition of the cards that are sent to them? Or are they there just to make money?

The quote I referenced earlier from Matt's conversation with Joe Orlando is indicative of a significant problem at PSA that starts at the very top.

"They're just baseball cards."

These baseball cards represent substantial investments by the people that own them, and you have a responsibility to examine them properly.

The problem isn't necessarily the "it's just baseball cards" attitude. In fact that can be a good thing, if you want someone truly objective.
I've noticed that some cards that are "special" - Wagner, Magie, etc always seem to get a grade slightly better than it seems. That's always been true, perhaps less so with TPG than before. The Wagner I saw in person went from f-g, creases, writing, wear...Through 3-4 public sales about 6 months apart, gaining a grade each time the last ad had it as VG?

The other part of the problem is the backwards system all TPGs use. In other hobbies the cheap stuff gets approved right away, the better stuff takes longer, and sometimes needs to be accompanied by copies of research to get anything other than "we decline to offer an opinion" . The experts can usually make the call in under a minute when giving an item a first look, but will take longer when doing the actual examining.
So instead of making the turnaround 30 days on something like an 81 Topps common and a day or less for a Magie. It should be the other way around.

That being said, even with the other stuff mistakes happen, and new information constantly comes to light. Like a dealer with boxes full of great stuff - Too much stuff that's too nice- finally being caught with the device that made the great examples of rare cancels on stamps. A lot of his stuff passed authentication, then some discoveries were made and questions asked and eventually he was caught. A big problem, but everyone learned from it. The fakes are saved for study rather than being destroyed.
And sometimes the "fakes" are proven legit as new information is found and new techniques are used.

Reversing the time for the price tiers would probably go a long way towards fixing some problems. Then expensive stuff like Magies could get a more serious examination. With a one day turnaround, there's just not enough time. Given more time and access to a database of images a comparison like Chris did could be done for all expensive cards. And that would lead to fewer mistakes.

I have a decent collection of images of Magies, and the second fake which I didn't have an image of fooled me into supporting the second. Terrible methodology on my part. I should have considered the other fake suspect as well barring better proof. Too much trust that the exact same thing wouldn't slide past twice. That's why image collections and a variety of comparisons are important.

Steve B

Steve B

[the 'stache]

Steve, if you will remember the conversation to which I am referring, Matt Miller had a very high end PSA graded 1960 Topps Hank Aaron which he sent in for review, along with several other valuable cards. He contacted PSA in advance of his submission, and Joe Orlando promised to personally oversee the entire process for him.

When he checked the grades online a week later, the PSA 8.5 (which had a population of 2) was now listed as a 7. PSA had damaged the card, and when Matt next spoke to Orlando, he told Matt that no reviewed card had ever been damaged by PSA previously. Obviously, Orlando was not being truthful.

Put yourself in Matt's place. PSA compensated him for the lost value of the card, and then Orlando became indignant when Matt expressed how upset he was. That's where the "you're sick over a baseball card. They're just baseball cards, give me a break" line came from.

Respectfully, I don't see any way this statement could be a good thing. When the President of PSA says a customer should not be upset when one of their valuable cards is damaged, it's a big problem.

[steve B]

Sorry for any confusion, sometimes I don't explain my ideas well.

I wasn't referring to Matts situation. Expressing "It's just cards" to a customer whose card you've damaged IS wrong, AND lousy PR and customer service.

My point is that for objectivity someone who doesn't know a lot about cards will usually be a more accurate grader overall. I've tried it with friends and it works. I give them the standards and a handful of cards - a few commons and a star rookie that's a bit worn. Not looking for a precise technical grade, just G,VG,EX, NM, they're nearly 100% accurate.
People who are baseball fans or know a little about cards are typically less accurate, giving the star a better grade than it deserves.
More experienced collectors are better at it- maybe being a bit jaded. But that breaks down at some point for most of us. (and those that are beyond that have a bit of admiration from me. )

The point about a need to take more time on more expensive items rather than less isn't an opinion I'll change easily.

Steve B

[ullmandds]

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

It does make sense. TPGs charge more, generally, to grade more valuable cards so why not spend a couple extra minutes on them?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

Originally Posted by Leon

It does make sense. TPGs charge more, generally, to grade more valuable cards so why not spend a couple extra minutes on them?

Agreed 100%. With modern cards, which until recently has made up the majority of my collection, where a card's value will go is an unknown. That Bowman Chrome prospect refractor auto could be the next Mike Trout, or Greg Jefferies. So it is important to grade those cards accurately without spending an inordinate amount of time on them.

However, if I sent in a Eddie Plank T206 to grade (I can dream!), they better spend a little longer examining it than they do a 2013 Stephen Strasburg Topps common.

[Dario7707]

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