T206 Lionel Carter vs. Harris Collection

[sb1]

There is a large disparity in the history of the cards of the two esteemed collectors. One collected/trade/bought cards in an era when the cards were sometimes cut down to fit pages. The other bought cards when they were trimmed to deceive.

The former are graded as such, the later not so much.

Pretty much sums it up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sb1

There is a large disparity in the history of the cards of the two esteemed collectors. One collected/trade/bought cards in an era when the cards were sometimes cut down to fit pages. The other bought cards when they were trimmed to deceive.

The former are graded as such, the later not so much.

Pretty much sums it up.

You assume Carter's cards were submitted without any work being done on them. I hope that is the case but I would not bet on it given the state of that firm's legal affairs.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You assume Carter's cards were submitted without any work being done on them. I hope that is the case but I would not bet on it given the state of that firm's legal affairs.

Agreed. If the gypsies or Doug Allen had a hold on any Carter card, there's a reason to at least be concerned.

[Steve D]

Regarding the Harris Collection, I read recently in one of the articles about Mastro's legal proceedings, that the T206s in the Harris Collection supposedly have a close connection with the "infamous" Wagner.


Steve

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Regarding the Harris Collection, I read recently in one of the articles about Mastro's legal proceedings, that the T206s in the Harris Collection supposedly have a close connection with the "infamous" Wagner.


Steve

Steve- could you share that article? Thanks alot...

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Steve- could you share that article? Thanks alot...

I can't immediately place where I saw the article, but it mentioned that the Wagner and a T206 set were both bought in the Copeland Auction, and it implied that the set of cards also came from Mastro. I don't remember it specifically mentioning the Harris name, but it did refer to it as going to someone in Southern California, and that a large number of the cards ended up going to PSA.

I'll look around and try to find the article. I just saw it within the past month.

Steve

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by sb1

There is a large disparity in the history of the cards of the two esteemed collectors. One collected/trade/bought cards in an era when the cards were sometimes cut down to fit pages. The other bought cards when they were trimmed to deceive.

The former are graded as such, the later not so much.

Pretty much sums it up.

Agree completely. First of all, I've never even thought of the Carter collection as SGC-centric (they may be, but it's never something I've consciously noticed). The Harris collection is largely filled with (and obviously so) trimmed cards. To suggest that "some" of the Harris collection are "probably questionable" and the Carter collection to be "a lot ... questionable" is simply not true -- the percentage of good Carter cards is high, the percentage of good Harris cards is low. And this has nothing to do with SGC v. PSA, nothing at all.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Agree completely. First of all, I've never even thought of the Carter collection as SGC-centric (they may be, but it's never something I've consciously noticed). The Harris collection is largely filled with (and obviously so) trimmed cards. To suggest that "some" of the Harris collection are "probably questionable" and the Carter collection to be "a lot ... questionable" is simply not true -- the percentage of good Carter cards is high, the percentage of good Harris cards is low. And this has nothing to do with SGC v. PSA, nothing at all.

Jeff- In your opinion, most of the Harris cards are not good? Is that what you are saying?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Jeff- In your opinion, most of the Harris cards are not good? Is that what you are saying?

Unfortunately, yes. And I have no axe to grind on this one; while I represent Dave Forman, I have thousands of costly PSA graded cards. The Harris cards are often dismissed as trimmed upon a two second glance from 50 feet away. And the graders had to see this just as clearly as we all have on this board.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Unfortunately, yes. And I have no axe to grind on this one; while I represent Dave Forman, I have thousands of costly PSA graded cards. The Harris cards are often dismissed as trimmed upon a two second glance from 50 feet away. And the graders had to see this just as clearly as we all have on this board.

Jeff- I understand, thanks alot for your candor.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Unfortunately, yes. And I have no axe to grind on this one; while I represent Dave Forman, I have thousands of costly PSA graded cards. The Harris cards are often dismissed as trimmed upon a two second glance from 50 feet away. And the graders had to see this just as clearly as we all have on this board.

And therefore what, they graded them anyhow for the publicity? As a favor?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Maybe psa was "bullied" into grading them.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And therefore what, they graded them anyhow for the publicity? As a favor?

Who knows? But the Harris cards are so obviously trimmed that no loupe is required for inspection--just eyeballs that work.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Who knows? But the Harris cards are so obviously trimmed that no loupe is required for inspection--just eyeballs that work.

Jeff- you're making me a tad nervous as I have several high grade Harris T206s. Most I have seen with a loupe, with no obvious issues... Hope you are dead wrong on this, but who knows??....I have sold a couple that I didn't feel so warm about for what it's worth...

[Steve D]

I found the article:

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/

Go to #10 not quite 1/3 of the way down the page (below the pictures of the Wagner and Plank. It mentions Kirk Harris by name.

Steve

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Who knows? But the Harris cards are so obviously trimmed that no loupe is required for inspection--just eyeballs that work.

Need a motive for a crime....