Question regarding top cards on cellos -1979

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

+1

I guess these filthy pack resealers get the best of us. Please enlighten us about the Staubach pack in question. I'm very curious.

I am curious too....

[1all]

I am not speaking for Pepis here and I think the question raised is fair and deserves an answer.

But, I did want to mention that cards in cello packs from the early 70s do run in sequence. But, at any moment the sequence can break and another sequence starts. It is definitely possible for the same sequence to occur two times within the same pack. As an example, see this thread over in CU where a member opens up a 1970 Baseball Cello pack. He winds up with duplicates of a couple cards including the card on the bottom of the pack. This makes me believe that, however unlikely, the same card can conceivably show up on both the top and bottom of packs that were distributed in single series cellos like in 1972 football.

1970 Topps Baseball Cello Rip

BTW - 1970 cello packs purchased from Fritsch are rock solid legitimate. I don't believe that anyone has ever questioned this.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am curious too....

Ok, in 1972 topps produced their cards in 3 series, the basic set of only 264
cards series one cards 1/132 besides wax packs, they packaged that 1st series
in rack packs and clear cello 27 card packs, at the middle of this they decided
to test a new cello pack with much heavier paper than the clear packs this new
packs would now have a price a topps logo and product disclosure only one series so there was no rhyme or reason just random cards from a single series
fit it in a 27 card pack, this was repeated in 2nd series packs, both series were
never inserted in the same pack, and all the cards in the entire series could
and will show-up in either side, then the scarce 3rd series came out BUT only
in wax packs, all of these also happened in the following year 1973, it wasn't
until 1974 when the set grew and the number of cards in a cello packs shrank that
they (topps) developed a distinctive pattern.
in a final note i examine that pack closely and found it satisfactory,
and I know packs as well as anyone out there could possibly know, and welcome any legal challenges to disprove it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pepis

Ok, in 1972 topps produced their cards in 3 series, the basic set of only 264
cards series one cards 1/132 besides wax packs, they packaged that 1st series
in rack packs and clear cello 27 card packs, at the middle of this they decided
to test a new cello pack with much heavier paper than the clear packs this new
packs would now have a price a topps logo and product disclosure only one series so there was no rhyme or reason just random cards from a single series
fit it in a 27 card pack, this was repeated in 2nd series packs, both series were
never inserted in the same pack, and all the cards in the entire series could
and will show-up in either side, then the scarce 3rd series came out BUT only
in wax packs, all of these also happened in the following year 1973, it wasn't
until 1974 when the set grew and the number of cards in a cello packs shrank that
they (topps) developed a distinctive pattern.
in a final note i examine that pack closely and found it satisfactory,
and I know packs as well as anyone out there could possibly know, and welcome any legal challenges to disprove it.

Did you sell this pack on ebay and if so, is it a bad pack?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-F...vip=true&rt=nc

[vintagetoppsguy]

I'm not taking up for Jose because I do not know him, have never conducted business with him and have no dog in this fight. However, I read a lot of accusations over here and on the CU boards.

Why can't someone post some solid proof of those accusations? I've recently called out scammers on the main page and I provide proof that links those I've accused directly to the scam (or whatever I've accused them of - e.g. shilling).

However, I have not seen any proof against Jose. If someone can link him to something, then you can change my mind, but it has to be proof positive, no he said / she said stuff.

Please don't PM me with your proof. If someone has proof, let them post it here for all to see.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not taking up for Jose because I do not know him, have never conducted business with him and have no dog in this fight. However, I read a lot of accusations over here and on the CU boards.

Why can't someone post some solid proof of those accusations? I've recently called out scammers on the main page and I provide proof that links those I've accused directly to the scam (or whatever I've accused them of - e.g. shilling).

However, I have not seen any proof against Jose. If someone can link him to something, then you can change my mind, but it has to be proof positive, no he said / she said stuff.

Please don't PM me with your proof. If someone has proof, let them post it here for all to see.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by japhi

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

[pepis]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

Absolutely David.
what we got here is a BLATAN attempt of a cover-up by PSA the pack
corruption is so BIG there is nearly !000 star packs alone in the population
report, that can be identify as BOGUS simply by the mention of the player
on top, most counterfeiters on EBAY keep getting away with it because as you
said there authenticator is incompetent does not have the proper knowledge,
last year i offered to sit down with him an discuss it, and nothing in fact he
is now SELLING BOGUS PACKS IN HIS WEBSITE so needless to say it got worst!

[japhi]

I don't put Steve on a pedestal, don't even collect unopened. I don't for one second believe that Pepis started making fake packs for the greater good of the hobby.

I'm also not naive enough to think that PSA or any other TPG will catch every fake.

Here is what I do know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top

That's enough info for me to form an opinion, YMMV

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Leon

Did you sell this pack on ebay and if so, is it a bad pack?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-F...vip=true&rt=nc

No on both Leon,
the pack is good! and it got hit BIN by member David Gold who also created
an ALT at the CU after he got not only suspended but also erased from the
CU history his ALT is MrSnuffleupagus the same guy that sort of criticized you
on the CU yesterday his been buying some of my more expensive basketball
cards and not paying after blocking him he started using a different ebay ID
in here he is davidG1966 and i'm pretty sure he also has an ALT here.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by pepis

No on both Leon,
the pack is good! and it got hit BIN by member David Gold who also created
an ALT at the CU after he got not only suspended but also erased from the
CU history his ALT is MrSnuffleupagus the same guy that sort of criticized you
on the CU yesterday his been buying some of my more expensive basketball
cards and not paying after blocking him he started using a different ebay ID
in here he is davidG1966 and i'm pretty sure he also has an ALT here.

Wait. You didn't sell that pack? Isn't that your ebay user ID?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pepis

No on both Leon,
the pack is good! and it got hit BIN by member David Gold who also created
an ALT at the CU after he got not only suspended but also erased from the
CU history his ALT is MrSnuffleupagus the same guy that sort of criticized you
on the CU yesterday his been buying some of my more expensive basketball
cards and not paying after blocking him he started using a different ebay ID
in here he is davidG1966 and i'm pretty sure he also has an ALT here.

So you aren't the ebay user in that auction, elsipep? David Gold is kind of out of control if you ask me....maybe one card shy of a deck.

[1all]

Originally Posted by Leon

So you aren't the ebay user in that auction, elsipep? David Gold is kind of out of control if you ask me....maybe one card shy of a deck.

The way I read it Leon is that Jose *is* the seller but the pack wasn't actually sold because the person who hit "Buy it now" was playing games and never paid.

[lahmejoon]

Where is popcorn girl when we need her over here!