Future of the Hobby/ Responses needed

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

To me it's simple. Back in my day we flipped cards night and day, constantly traded with our friends to get our favorite players and teams, we'd carry a bunch of cards in our pockets wherever we went and then we'd stick them in our bicycle spokes to get that cool whirring sound. Condition meant nothing.

Today? Kids open a new pack in a baseball card shop and handle each card very gingerly and immediately slide them into plastic sheets or holders. No wear, no tear, no baseball talk. The only thing said is, "How much is this one worth?"

Actually I think it's quotes like these that are what are killing this hobby.

Turn this quote around why don't we. You wonder about the future of this hobby, and I ask, what kid in their right mind would WANT to be a part of a hobby if they're just going to be lectured on how much better it used to be in th' good 'ole days, and how kids these days are just not doing it for the right reasons?

I should know. I speak as a young person collecting cards. I'm 29 now, and have been collecting for three years, though I've been fascinated by the hobby for much longer. But before I engaged in the hobby in earnest, I collected coins for 15 years.

And I made the switch largely because I found coin collectors to be a bunch of old curmudgeons who just weren't that friendly to deal with. I got tired of it all, and I got hooked on baseball cards when my Dad and I embarked upon finishing some of his sets...he collected as a boy, and kept a near complete run of Topps cards '57-63.

I'm now building the '52 set and I have higher ambitions....the 33 Goudey...the T206 White Borders and the Cracker Jack series.

And let me put this out there for you all to ponder. I have zero interest in baseball as it is played today. Zero. I see the sport as filled with a lot of corrupt ballplayers who shoot steroids in their veins, who are profligate with their money, who have no sense of style or class (The Boston Red Sox's slovenly appearance year after year is an embarassment, at least, to me), and worst of all they have no sense of loyalty to a team or a community. Gone are the days when a player might spend an entire career with one franchise. Now they all hop skip and jump to whatever will pay them the most, or offers the best shot at a world series ring. Bah.

Moreover, I was a terrible ball player, and loathed playing little league. I quit midway through my first season of kid pitch because I was sick of standing out in left field under the sun for 90 bloody minutes, whilst alternately being scared to death of being beaned by a pitch from a kid as inexperienced as I. By all logic, I should be the least likely person to get involved in baseball card collecting. Yet I am, and there are many out there like me who could as well.

I'm interested in this hobby because I appreciate the history and the artistry of it. I adore the design and the rich colors of these cards, especially Topps from 52-56. I love the flexichrome hand coloring, that hyper-real Technicolor look. I love the lithography and the attention to detail lavished on the T206 cards, and the Goudeys.

Moreover, I love what these cards represent. I love that they were not prefab collectibles, that go straight from the manufacturer to the the dealer's shelf or booth. These were things kids enjoyed, and spent their lawnmower money and allowances on each week, like my dad did, who fondly recalls how they'd run from store to store chasing rumors of the latest series hitting the shelves, and how they'd trade and covet certain players. My Dad adored Stan the Man and Joe Adcock, and still has his beaten up Bowman 53 and '54s of those players.

I love the idea that the cards I now possess were once loved by some kid who adored the sport and looked up to these players, who were heroes, gods and your older brother all rolled up into one. These cards embody a time and era in the sport I'd surely love to know, but never will. Occasionally I'll ask my dad, "Just what was baseball like when you were a kid, " and he'll get a distant gaze and a little wistful and say, "Oh baseball was everything."

Not only that, I see these cards as symbols of a real force for good. I have a working theory, that baseball cards helped play a role in the civil rights movement. Consider the 52 series of Topps. The black players are not treated differently. They weren't issued in smaller numbers, or grouped together in one series. They were sprinkled throughout. They were just like every other player. The kids who collected these cards weren't urged to see race, just a player with stats. When the sixth, High series came out, who were the three players chosen to lead the lineup? Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson and Bobby Thomson. THAT is saying something. That is saying to kids everywhere, "If you like Bobby and Mickey, you should pay attention to Jackie," or for that matter Monte Irving or Willie Mays or George Crowe.

Yes, I collect my cards in PSA holders. No I don't just buy the plastic. I buy the card. I buy them for the color, the centering, the clarity of the image. I'll take a centered PSA 6 over a diamond cut PSA 8 any day of the week. But for lack of quality dealers around where I live, and because there are so many unscrupulous people out there dealing in trimmed and altered cards, short of seeing the card in person and measuring each edge, I find PSA or SGC the only secure route when I buy my cards online. I'm not going to let principle get in the way of common sense. As Will Rogers said, "you should be less concerned about getting a return on your money, than getting your money returned." Well I won't risk my money buying stuff that could be junk, just because of some absurd adherence to the true spirit of the hobby. If we all wanted to collect in the TRUE way, we'd paste our cards to album pages, or tote them in bundles held by rubber bands. There's very little difference to me between keeping raw cards in album pages, and holdered ones in boxes. It's just common sense to protect the items we treasure.

So we cannot, MUST NOT assume the stance that young people don't understand, or are ignorant, or collect for the wrong reasons. It's bull. They won't collect if they're going to come up against collectors who cast aspersions and hem and haw about "The good ole days, " and "Kids these days." And let me tell you, people my age are SO FASCINATED by the old and the vintage. CDs are going the way of the dodo, while vinyl is coming back! I have so many friends who are all about buying used, buying original, whether its clothes or furniture or jewelry or records. I for one buy and restore soda fountain mixers and tube radios. We're a generation that is dubious of the modern pre-fab collectible and we are drawn to the spirit of mid 20th century manufacturing, which emphasized quality and style above cheapness and disposability. We are PRIMED to take over this hobby.

Instead we must reach out to kids and get them hooked on the hobby. For my cousin's graduation gift this year, I gave him a '52 common card, worth 40 or 50 bucks. I told him he could sell it if he wished, or hang on to it, or maybe start to build a set on his own. The point is I tried to plant the seed, and now it is up to him. That's all we can do, to offer up that choice to young people out there, and let them choose. But to do so, we must first be welcoming and open to young people. We must be optimistic. Because of course no one is going to collect if they hear a hobby is dying. That's a rather dire pronouncement, and totally wrong.

I ask you, if indeed a hobby was tied, as some claim it to be, to collectors who grew up watching the players, if indeed the hobby hinges on the baby boomers, than why are the T206 cards or the Goudeys more prized than ever? Shouldn't their values have crashed once all the people who watched those players play died off? Why are the dead ball era players more valuable than ever? I argue for the same reason that I collect 50s Topps. Because of the history and the heritage they contain, and the sheer beauty of the craft involved in making the cards.

So take the initiative. Go out and start try to get kids interested. Give a few cards away why don't you? I go to card shows and I see no generosity of spirit in dealers, only guys wanting to make a quick buck selling crap and overpriced vintage. I saw a box at a dealer's booth once, with a handful of '52s in it, and they were all beaten to hell, PSA 1s across the board, yet he's asking the same price that I would pay for a EX5 common card. Let's be real here. Give one or two of these cards away. For Christmas, put cards in people's stockings. How about for Halloween, you hand out cards instead of candy? Offer a choice...a piece of candy or a vintage card. Most kids will probably take the candy, but a few might not...some might even start collecting. We don't need that many to get the ball rolling. Just a few, and then they might get others on board, and it can spiral from there.

But the responsibility has to fall to us. So let us abandon all this doom and gloom about the hobby dying. It WILL be if we keep pronouncing it as such. Instead, let's keep this hobby alive by reaching out to kids and getting them excited the way we get excited. Be happy, enthusiastic and that enthusiasm will catch like a wonderful cold. Be the change you want to have happen.

[brian1961]

Brianruns10 has written a right-on, well-written, thought-provoking reply.

I stand and salute him.

Forty years ago Lionel Carter and Frank Nagy helped me progress in the vintage collecting hobby. I've been at it off and on ever since. Once in a while I've given a few cards away. From the reaction pf the recipients, I felt almost as good as if I were the one getting some new cards.

Thanks again, Brianruns10. Bravo. Bravo.

--Brian Powell

[CobbvLajoie1910]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Brianruns10 has written a right-on, well-written, thought-provoking reply.

I stand and salute him.

Forty years ago Lionel Carter and Frank Nagy helped me progress in the vintage collecting hobby. I've been at it off and on ever since. Once in a while I've given a few cards away. From the reaction pf the recipients, I felt almost as good as if I were the one getting some new cards.

Thanks again, Brianruns10. Bravo. Bravo.

--Brian Powell

+1. Great post Brianruns10. Love your passion.

[campyfan39]

I agree, great post. I think it is especially enlightening coming form someone who did not/does not play or watch a lot currently.
However, you did have the connection with cards with your Dad as I did.
That is what gives me hope for my own three boys though only the youngest shows any interest at this point.
Great points all around guys thank you!

Originally Posted by brian1961

Brianruns10 has written a right-on, well-written, thought-provoking reply.

I stand and salute him.

Forty years ago Lionel Carter and Frank Nagy helped me progress in the vintage collecting hobby. I've been at it off and on ever since. Once in a while I've given a few cards away. From the reaction pf the recipients, I felt almost as good as if I were the one getting some new cards.

Thanks again, Brianruns10. Bravo. Bravo.

--Brian Powell

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I agree, great post. I think it is especially enlightening coming form someone who did not/does not play or watch a lot currently.
However, you did have the connection with cards with your Dad as I did.
That is what gives me hope for my own three boys though only the youngest shows any interest at this point.
Great points all around guys thank you!

I think this is true of ANY hobby that you need someone to introduce you to it, to serve as a mentor. Because you won't get very far in most without someone to be a guiding force, at least, initially. In my case that was my dad, but it can also be an uncle or a family friend or heck just the neighborhood business owner or hobby club president.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

I think this is true of ANY hobby that you need someone to introduce you to it, to serve as a mentor. Because you won't get very far in most without someone to be a guiding force, at least, initially. In my case that was my dad, but it can also be an uncle or a family friend or heck just the neighborhood business owner or hobby club president.

Your first post is one of the best posts I have ever read on this board. Thank you.
On a few notes, I collect and absolutely love playing softball and baseball, and have for literally 45 yrs and running. I play in a very competitive senior softball league currently. However, my start was opening '67-'72 Topps as a kid. as I am now 52. My dad could have cared less. As for current MLB baseball, I can't stand it for all of the reasons you so eloquently stated.

BTW, the thread on the main board has some great posts too....

[David W]

Kids today do everything electronically. They text, not talk. They instagram each other when they are in the same room.

That does not mean the ways we communicated are better or worse, just that they do it differently.

So, on the matter of card collecting, my 11 year old son loves, follows, and plays soccer, basketball, and football. He follows them on his Ipad with his various "aps". I used to love the Sunday paper for the stats that were in it. I followed my favorite players that way.

He does not need a card to know the stats for Drew Brees, for Kevin Durrant, or D Wade. He has ESPN.

He does not need a card to know what they look like or who they play for. He has ESPN.com or Yahoo.com.

He knows all about his favorite players from Madden and other video games.

So he has a few cards here and there, mostly thrown in his closet. Give him a few packs for Christmas and he has fun opening them, and looking for Kobe, or Manning, or Matt Carpenter, but just like books are going the way of the dinosaur, and paper money is turning into plastic debit and credit cards, so is the "Hard Copy" of a sports card.

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by David W

Kids today do everything electronically. They text, not talk. They instagram each other when they are in the same room.

That does not mean the ways we communicated are better or worse, just that they do it differently.

So, on the matter of card collecting, my 11 year old son loves, follows, and plays soccer, basketball, and football. He follows them on his Ipad with his various "aps". I used to love the Sunday paper for the stats that were in it. I followed my favorite players that way.

He does not need a card to know the stats for Drew Brees, for Kevin Durrant, or D Wade. He has ESPN.

He does not need a card to know what they look like or who they play for. He has ESPN.com or Yahoo.com.

He knows all about his favorite players from Madden and other video games.

So he has a few cards here and there, mostly thrown in his closet. Give him a few packs for Christmas and he has fun opening them, and looking for Kobe, or Manning, or Matt Carpenter, but just like books are going the way of the dinosaur, and paper money is turning into plastic debit and credit cards, so is the "Hard Copy" of a sports card.

Have you tried giving him some vintage cards? Honestly, I think the modern stuff is sh*t. But when I show my vintage cards to people who know nothing about the hobby, they're always blown away by the colors and the design.

These items we treasure need not be discarded. Their meanings only change. The world isn't falling to bits, and in fact there is greater appreciation for the old now than there ever has been. I've got friends who collect vinyl albums, others who collect old books or by vintage clothing. It's all the rage.

And let me remind you, that for supposedly being a careless generation, we weren't the ones who had all our cards tossed out. The reason cards are prized today is because few thought or cared to save them way back when. They were just treated as a passing fancy, and tossed out. So the ignorance is not one-sided merely.