T206 Wagner partial back. Really Huggins & Scott?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But there could be one in a closet somewhere, or in a parallel universe, so it's still POSSIBLE this is a sliver of a Wagner back.

Peter, you're right what about an attic?

[ullmandds]

i think brock and steve are looking for jobs as auction puffers...I'd send resume's directly to huggins and scott!

[tschock]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i think brock and steve are looking for jobs as auction puffers...I'd send resume's directly to huggins and scott!

Better a puffer than a fluffer. At least with the former, you're only trying to get ahead....

[steve B]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i think brock and steve are looking for jobs as auction puffers...I'd send resume's directly to huggins and scott!

I'm not saying the card is what they it might be. There's so much against it that it really shouldn't have been written up like that without a lot more than a maybe preproduction maybe uncut strip to back it up.

I am saying that someday having something far more solid might be possible.

But probably not for a Wagner/Piedmont.

Just the compiling pics of the plate scratches has shown some subjects that can't be from the same sheet. Eventually we'll know more.

Steve B

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by steve B

Eventually we'll know more.

But you'll never know that the front of this card has a Wagner on it. Whether a card was cut from a sheet that had another card on it is fun to talk about, but doesn't make a Bowerman a Wagner, partial or otherwise.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But you'll never know that the front of this card has a Wagner on it. Whether a card was cut from a sheet that had another card on it is fun to talk about, but doesn't make a Bowerman a Wagner, partial or otherwise.

I don't think never is necessarily correct.

Once the sheet size and layout is known then individual positions on each plate will probably be identifiable. At the moment it looks like common players were on more than one sheet, and that more than one back plate was used. the 150's were probably done in at least three press runs with changes made between each one.

For instance Magie comes with backs that only match with certain details on the front. And at least some Magees share an identifiable back with Magie. There are at least six different Magies.

So each instance of a Wagner on a sheet will probably have a particular and identifiable back that may or may not be shared with another card. If it's not shared then identifying one from the back should be possible.
Whether the differences will be near enough to the edge to tell from a slight miscut isn't likely, but possible.

Of course, as of right now it's not possible. And I don't expect it to be for a long time.

Steve B

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by steve B

I don't think never is necessarily correct. . . . Once the sheet size and layout is known then individual positions on each plate will probably be identifiable.

My point is that since no part of a Wagner front shows up on the Bowerman, any proof or theories regarding sheet placement will always be speculative. Moreover, even if you proved with 100% certainty that this card once shared a sheet with Wagner, and the Wagner would have been on the front of the card next door, you still do not have a piece of a Wagner because none of its front shows up.

It is purely a ruse. Engaging in rationale discourse about sheet theory lends more truth to it than it deserves.

[ullmandds]

EXACTLY!!!

My point is that since no part of a Wagner front shows up on the Bowerman, any proof or theories regarding sheet placement will always be speculative. Moreover, even if you proved with 100% certainty that this card once shared a sheet with Wagner, and the Wagner would have been on the front of the card next door, you still do not have a piece of a Wagner because none of its front shows up.
It is purely a ruse.

Engaging in rationale discourse about sheet theory lends more truth to it than it deserves.[/QUOTE]

[Peter_Spaeth]

"But it cannot be reasonably said that this is not possibly a partial Honus Wagner."

That is unequivocally the worst equivocal description I have ever read.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"But it cannot be reasonably said that this is not possibly a partial Honus Wagner."

That is unequivocally the worst equivocal description I have ever read.

Totally agree. It uses double negatives to try to make a positive, without ever saying the positive, which would be:

"But it CAN be reasonably said that this IS possibly a partial Honus Wagner."

Again, just not true.

[Runscott]

I would say that owning this card would be about as exciting as standing next to someone who might have had sex with the most attractive woman on the planet (the assumption being made because he at one time lived next door to her sister).

Boy, the stories I could then tell my friends.

[BobC]

I rarely post and just read the nonsense that goes on with posts like this and get a good laugh. Can't believe I've actually read this entire thread but, having done so, I noticed there are some facts no one has pointed out yet.

As already noted in the thread, supposedly all the sheets with Wagner cards on them were to have been destroyed. If so, that means the Bowerman (and Brown) cards that were next to Wagner would have likewise been destroyed at the same time. The known Wagner cards are all supposed to be hand-cut which, since the Bowerman card in the auction is supposedly machine cut, would rule out the possibility it was actually printed next to a Wagner card on the sheet it originally came from. Still, assume the possibility that somehow the Bowerman card just looks to be machine cut and could have been next to a Wagner.

Are there any known Sweet Caporal backed Wagners that have a misaligned/miscut back on them anything like this Bowerman card? I personally do not know the answer to that but, if there aren't any, then how could there possibly be a Bowerman card with such a miscut/misaligned back that was next to a real Wagner card? You can't have one without the other.

BobC

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by BobC

As already noted in the thread, supposedly all the sheets with Wagner cards on them were to have been destroyed. If so, that means the Bowerman (and Brown) cards that were next to Wagner would have likewise been destroyed at the same time. The known Wagner cards are all supposed to be hand-cut which, since the Bowerman card in the auction is supposedly machine cut, would rule out the possibility it was actually printed next to a Wagner card on the sheet it originally came from.
BobC

Nice, Bob. You just rendered the 'Pony Express' communication theory irrelevant.

[D. Bergin]

Maybe Panini or Topps will bid on it, chop it up into 100 pieces and make a special commemorative insert card out of it.

1/100 Gold Refractor Diamond Inlaid rare Bowerman/Wagner remnant card. Maybe they can even throw a half signature of Ted Williams on the same card for good measure.........or better yet, just one letter of his handwriting and include a JSA Basic Cert..................but you have to send it in along with $75 to get the Full Certificate.

Oh, the endless possibilities.

[T206Collector]

This is nothing short of another enterprising seller trying to exploit T206 collectors' desire to own a piece of the famed Wagner card without delivering an actual piece of an actual Wagner card.

"But it cannot be reasonably said that this is not possibly a partial Honus Wagner." Wrong. This is not possibly a partial Honus Wagner card because there is no evidence that Wagner's front ever appeared on it. A Wagner is made by the front, not the back.