OT Red Sox/Tigers and Cardinals/Dodgers

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Not true, the game was still there for the Cards to win, but like I said it's crying over spilled milk. Anyways, many clubs could be more successful if they would look at how the Cards run their organization. My Royals certainly could learn a thing or two. St Louis has great ownership and their ability to scout and develope talent is unsurpassed. They do it all without breaking the bank. The Cards rotation is set for the next ten years with those young arms and I expect to see a few more WS appearances as a result. Fun team to watch.

I watched the majority of Royals games and went to several - I think they are close!

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I watched the majority of Royals games and went to several - I think they are close!

I hope so Jeff. I have followed the team since 1971 when I had my second grade class picture taken with me in my Royals shirt. I have great admiration for the Cardinals who I believe are the best organization, top to bottom, in baseball. KC has missed on too many high draft picks, either poor scouting or an inability to develope the talent. Could be one of the two or both, I don't know which. Until that gets fixed it may be tough to win on a consistant basis. Great game by Lynn tonite, another young arm keeping Boston in check.

[GoldenAge50s]

Another unreal end to a WS game! This Red Sox team is the best in baseball at shaking off a tough loss & coming out the next day w/ a clean outlook.
I'm very proud of this team if they don't win another game--(but I think they will)

[Sean]

Originally Posted by conor912

While I would love to see both bats in the lineup, I'd be shocked to see Napoli behind the plate. I'm more concerned with getting Nava the hell out of there. I understand he covers more ground than Gomes and Busch has a big left field, but that's a trade off I'd be willing to make. Nava's bat is dead weight out there.

Conor, you called that one right.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

No bad call and no need for a Game 7. Shouldn't have to win 5 games.

Even with the bad call St. Louis could have won. But Clark misplayed a foul pop, and Worrell crossed-up Porter and caused a passed ball.All of which preceded Iorg's hit.

Yeah, it was a terrible call, but it didn't end the game. The Cards still had their chance and couldn't get it done.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Sean

Conor, you called that one right.

Yeah, I got half of my wish, which seemed to get job done

Another outstanding game. The cracks definitely showed in the rookies tonight. That unnessesarily rushed and wild throw by Bogaerts in the 8th could have been disastrous.....and Wong....oh my.

As annoying as I find Victorino, though, I'm not thrilled to see him out. He seems to always find a way to get on base. I'm just glad we get at least one more game in Boston and can get Napoli back in the mix.

[yanks12025]

Roid Sox win, so sadly up 3 games to 2.

[Ladder7]

Brock meets big Papi!

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

Brock meets big Papi!

I think your missing the milkshake or the needle in that picture, not sure how he takes his roids.

[Ladder7]

Hey, There's no crying in baseball card forums

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

Brock meets big Papi!

Wrong baby, Steve...you're looking for this one:

[conor912]

Say what you want about Papi, but 11 for 15 in the WS is epic.

As romantic as it would be to win it in 7, I'm praying the Sox take it on Wednesday. Having to explain to my wife that I can't go trick or treating with the family so I can watch a baseball game is a conversation I DON'T want to have.

[ullmandds]

I can't remember ever seeing such a dominant offensive performance as Poppi is putting on. Although the closer Kuwahara(sp) has been unreal as well! This Yankee fan sees the sox in 6.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I can't remember ever seeing such a dominant performance as Poppi is putting on. This Yankee fan sees the sox in 6.

He has been incredible.

[nsaddict]

And Ortiz was robbed of a grand slam in game 1

[ullmandds]

yes...and that!!!!

[packs]

All this talk about Beltran and Ortiz's HOF credentials during the series is driving me crazy. Neither one of them are even close to being HOFers. If you're going to say, Look at what they did in the postseason, then how can you keep out Bernie Williams or Andy Pettitte, two guys who are said to fall short.

Bottom line for me is that Vlad was so far and away better than both of them and he's only talked about as being borderline.

Enough is enough Joe Buck. Neither one of them is a 300 hitter.

[ullmandds]

I agree about all the HOF talk...nonsense...and the Bostoners nicknaming Poppi Cooperstown...that's just because compared to their credentials...he appears to be HOF material. He can't help not be implicated w/PED's...just like the rest of them...and this will certainly be taken into consideration when the time comes.

[Republicaninmass]

His hitting, and BOTH teams pitching is just amazing. Also, the Cardinal's fan are so into the game, it seems like they are hanging on every pitch!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I agree about all the HOF talk...nonsense...and the Bostoners nicknaming Poppi Cooperstown...that's just because compared to their credentials...he appears to be HOF material. He can't help not be implicated w/PED's...just like the rest of them...and this will certainly be taken into consideration when the time comes.

Was all this HOF talk a Fox post game discussion? I turn the tv off the second the last out is recorded.

[packs]

They talk about it all throughout the game. If Joe Buck had been around for the 78 World Series he would have been calling Brian Doyle a HOFer too.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by packs

They talk about it all throughout the game. If Joe Buck had been around for the 78 World Series he would have been calling Brian Doyle a HOFer too.

Comparing Ortiz to Brian Doyle? Quite a stretch. Ortiz has .952 lifetime OPS, Doyle .392 :-)

[packs]

Haha I just meant the sentiment.

[obcbobd]

I know, hence the smiley. Gotta keep these things light.

But according to baseball-reference.com, an average season of Ortiz is 35 HR, 118 RBIs. The only thing that can keep him out of the hall would be steroids. As he is tested multiple times a year and he will probably play another 4-5 years, plus waiting 5 more to be HOF eligible, there is plenty of time for definitive evidence that he cheated to be presented. Absent that he's in.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

I know, hence the smiley. Gotta keep these things light.

But according to baseball-reference.com, an average season of Ortiz is 35 HR, 118 RBIs. The only thing that can keep him out of the hall would be steroids. As he is tested multiple times a year and he will probably play another 4-5 years, plus waiting 5 more to be HOF eligible, there is plenty of time for definitive evidence that he cheated to be presented. Absent that he's in.

I don't think he'll get in, but they'll brush past the steroids and use the fact that he was a dh and never played in the field on a regular basis as the reason, which is valid imo. That said, he is arguably the best post season hitter in the history of the game.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Enough is enough Joe Buck. Neither one of them is a 300 hitter.

Neither is Williams.

Williams career .297 1257 rbi .381 obp 9053 Pa 287Hr
162 game average .297 98 .381 706 22

Ortiz career .287 1191 rbi .381 obp 8249 Pa 431 HR
162 game average .287 118 .381 679 35

Beltran .283 1327 rbi .359 obp 8949 Pa 358 HR
162 game average .283 104 .359 702 28


And a few HOF players by 162 game average
Player A .262 98 .356 656 32
Player B .298 102 .421 668 36
Player C .302 103 .384 677 36

Any guesses who A,B and C are? Looks like a "marginal" crew at best eh?

They all had longer careers, and a few off years as a result. Keep in mind Ortiz had a few partial years with MN and was also playing for a team that didn't want him to be a straight power hitter. Beltran has had a number of seasons with fewer than 100 games played as well.

Not saying Williams is marginal, despite not much power I think he'll get in eventually. Mostly benefitting from having played for some really great teams AND being a well liked player from NY. If He'd played his whole career for a small market team that won nothing I don't think he'd have a chance.
(And he's one of the few Yankees players I actually liked.)

Postseason performance matters too, and that's where some of the difference is. Ortiz has batted a bit over his average overall, but really well in WS. Beltran has also done much better postseason. Williams did rather poorly in the WS. and below his average overall.

Players AB+C are a mixed group postseason. One better, one about the same, another worse.

Steve B

[packs]

Bernie Williams was an incredible clutch hitter that you could always depend on. He won some of those ALDS and ALCS series' for the Yankees by himself and was a major reason they reached the World Series. He was walked intentionally 7 times in World Series play, which should be a testament to how clutch and feared he was.

I'd pick him in his prime any day over Beltran and Ortiz for my postseason roster. He has dropped off the HOF ballot entirely despite having great postseason numbers and playing a premium position.

Ortiz could potentially hit 500 but has a PED cloud over him. Beltran isn't even close in my opinion. And like I said, Vlad eclipses all of them but is still talked about as a borderline candidate.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

I know, hence the smiley. Gotta keep these things light.

But according to baseball-reference.com, an average season of Ortiz is 35 HR, 118 RBIs. The only thing that can keep him out of the hall would be steroids. As he is tested multiple times a year and he will probably play another 4-5 years, plus waiting 5 more to be HOF eligible, there is plenty of time for definitive evidence that he cheated to be presented. Absent that he's in.

Evidence???? He showed up on the same list as arod as to having failing drug test in 2003.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Bernie Williams was an incredible clutch hitter that you could always depend on. He won some of those ALDS and ALCS series' for the Yankees by himself and was a major reason they reached the World Series. He was walked intentionally 7 times in World Series play, which should be a testament to how clutch and feared he was.

I'd pick him in his prime any day over Beltran and Ortiz for my postseason roster. He has dropped off the HOF ballot entirely despite having great postseason numbers and playing a premium position.

Ortiz could potentially hit 500 but has a PED cloud over him. Beltran isn't even close in my opinion. And like I said, Vlad eclipses all of them but is still talked about as a borderline candidate.

?????

He batted .208 in world series play.

He was a great player, but his WS batting wasn't great.

Steve B

[packs]

What I'm really trying to say is Yankees and Bernie #1. Boston unranked. Haha it kills me they're one game away.

[irishdenny]

"Cards iN 7!!!"

jmho ;-)

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

"Cards iN 7!!!"

jmho ;-)

Man up! Show some cahones. Pick the Cards in 6.

[conor912]

I'm curious to see what will happen after the final out should Boston take it. Its been 95 years since the Sox clinched the title at Fenway. I know security will be up the wazoo, but I have many friends going who will be both drunk and stupid enough to rush the field.

[steve B]

Wow, no guesses on my three "marginal" HOFers from the earlier post.

I guess I'll have to give the answers

A = Reggie Jackson
B =Mickey Mantle
C =Willie Mays

I was surprised at their 162 game averages. I was expecting a lot higher all around than Williams, Ortiz, and Beltran. Finding them all roughly comparable was interesting.

Steve B

[greenmonster66]

Sox take it tonight!!

[Ladder7]

Great opponents in St Louis... Thanks for an epic Series.

Congrats to RSN!

[HRBAKER]

Great job BOSTON.
As a Cardinal fan I hate to lose it but they were simply a much, much better team.

Race well run, job well done!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

Great opponents in St Louis... Thanks for an epic Series.

Congrats to RSN!

Agreed. This postseason in general was insanely entertaining. I actually thought the ALCS was a better series than this one, but I'm splitting hairs. Either way, Brock is pissed, and that's all that matters right now

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

Great opponents in St Louis... Thanks for an epic Series.

Congrats to RSN!

+1

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by conor912

Agreed. This postseason in general was insanely entertaining. I actually thought the ALCS was a better series than this one, but I'm splitting hairs. Either way, Brock is pissed, and that's all that matters right now

Any Series that the Cardinals lose is a great one. Lots of tears in St. Louis tonight for those Redbird fans and glee in Boston and Chicago. Now we are waiting for pitchers and catchers to report. We are ready for the next cycle of baseball. Go Cubs Go.

[HRBAKER]

Ken I don't know if there are too many tears in St. Louis tonight.
That is unless the Cards fans were told that they had a future that looked something like the Cubs does.
It says something when your joy has to come from someone else losing as opposed to you ever winning.
But then that's the life of a Cub fan.

Great job BOSTON!

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Ken I don't know if there are too many tears in St. Louis tonight.
That is unless the Cards fans were told that they had a future that looked something like the Cubs does.
It says something when your joy has to come from someone else losing as opposed to you ever winning.
But then that's the life of a Cub fan.

Great job BOSTON!

Jeff,

I have a friend who is a diehard Cardinal fan and I had to listen to his baloney all year. That is where I am coming from. Cards had a great year and the series was awesome but the crow my friend gets to eat by gloating all year is definitely deserved. LOL

[drmondobueno]

This is a case where the better, the hot hitting lineup, determined, and brilliant pitching staff wins. All anybody in Boston, any Sox fan has to say is

SCOREBOARD

Any comebacks can be answered with

SCOREBOARD

I am a Pirate fan who is looking in awe at what a passionate, determined, well run team can do. Congrats to the Sox and Beantown. Just an incredible run this year.

See y'all in 2014

P S. Thanx for keepiing A- Fraud out of any playoff opportunity!

[Vol]

Congrats to all the BoSox fans out there.

Great season!!

Now for the long winter..

[oldjudge]

Congratulations to the BoSox--great team effort! Can there be a stronger indictment of Bobby Valentine as a manager?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Congratulations to the BoSox--great team effort! Can there be a stronger indictment of Bobby Valentine as a manager?

+1. Great point...

[barrysloate]

Very happy for Red Sox, only regret is to see Wacha get hit so hard in the most important game of his life. He'll bounce back. He was a great story this year.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Very happy for Red Sox, only regret is to see Macha get hit so hard in the most important game of his life. He'll bounce back. He was a great story this year.

He seems to be a well grounded kid, he'll be back.
Gotta learn to take the bad with the good.
That's called learning your lesson on a big stage though.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

He seems to be a well grounded kid, he'll be back.
Gotta learn to take the bad with the good.
That's called learning your lesson on a big stage though.

Absolutely true.

[Ladder7]

Warriors, come out to plaaaaaaay.