OT Red Sox/Tigers and Cardinals/Dodgers

[nsaddict]

And Ortiz was robbed of a grand slam in game 1

[ullmandds]

yes...and that!!!!

[packs]

All this talk about Beltran and Ortiz's HOF credentials during the series is driving me crazy. Neither one of them are even close to being HOFers. If you're going to say, Look at what they did in the postseason, then how can you keep out Bernie Williams or Andy Pettitte, two guys who are said to fall short.

Bottom line for me is that Vlad was so far and away better than both of them and he's only talked about as being borderline.

Enough is enough Joe Buck. Neither one of them is a 300 hitter.

[ullmandds]

I agree about all the HOF talk...nonsense...and the Bostoners nicknaming Poppi Cooperstown...that's just because compared to their credentials...he appears to be HOF material. He can't help not be implicated w/PED's...just like the rest of them...and this will certainly be taken into consideration when the time comes.

[Republicaninmass]

His hitting, and BOTH teams pitching is just amazing. Also, the Cardinal's fan are so into the game, it seems like they are hanging on every pitch!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I agree about all the HOF talk...nonsense...and the Bostoners nicknaming Poppi Cooperstown...that's just because compared to their credentials...he appears to be HOF material. He can't help not be implicated w/PED's...just like the rest of them...and this will certainly be taken into consideration when the time comes.

Was all this HOF talk a Fox post game discussion? I turn the tv off the second the last out is recorded.

[packs]

They talk about it all throughout the game. If Joe Buck had been around for the 78 World Series he would have been calling Brian Doyle a HOFer too.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by packs

They talk about it all throughout the game. If Joe Buck had been around for the 78 World Series he would have been calling Brian Doyle a HOFer too.

Comparing Ortiz to Brian Doyle? Quite a stretch. Ortiz has .952 lifetime OPS, Doyle .392 :-)

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Enough is enough Joe Buck. Neither one of them is a 300 hitter.

Neither is Williams.

Williams career .297 1257 rbi .381 obp 9053 Pa 287Hr
162 game average .297 98 .381 706 22

Ortiz career .287 1191 rbi .381 obp 8249 Pa 431 HR
162 game average .287 118 .381 679 35

Beltran .283 1327 rbi .359 obp 8949 Pa 358 HR
162 game average .283 104 .359 702 28


And a few HOF players by 162 game average
Player A .262 98 .356 656 32
Player B .298 102 .421 668 36
Player C .302 103 .384 677 36

Any guesses who A,B and C are? Looks like a "marginal" crew at best eh?

They all had longer careers, and a few off years as a result. Keep in mind Ortiz had a few partial years with MN and was also playing for a team that didn't want him to be a straight power hitter. Beltran has had a number of seasons with fewer than 100 games played as well.

Not saying Williams is marginal, despite not much power I think he'll get in eventually. Mostly benefitting from having played for some really great teams AND being a well liked player from NY. If He'd played his whole career for a small market team that won nothing I don't think he'd have a chance.
(And he's one of the few Yankees players I actually liked.)

Postseason performance matters too, and that's where some of the difference is. Ortiz has batted a bit over his average overall, but really well in WS. Beltran has also done much better postseason. Williams did rather poorly in the WS. and below his average overall.

Players AB+C are a mixed group postseason. One better, one about the same, another worse.

Steve B

[packs]

Bernie Williams was an incredible clutch hitter that you could always depend on. He won some of those ALDS and ALCS series' for the Yankees by himself and was a major reason they reached the World Series. He was walked intentionally 7 times in World Series play, which should be a testament to how clutch and feared he was.

I'd pick him in his prime any day over Beltran and Ortiz for my postseason roster. He has dropped off the HOF ballot entirely despite having great postseason numbers and playing a premium position.

Ortiz could potentially hit 500 but has a PED cloud over him. Beltran isn't even close in my opinion. And like I said, Vlad eclipses all of them but is still talked about as a borderline candidate.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Bernie Williams was an incredible clutch hitter that you could always depend on. He won some of those ALDS and ALCS series' for the Yankees by himself and was a major reason they reached the World Series. He was walked intentionally 7 times in World Series play, which should be a testament to how clutch and feared he was.

I'd pick him in his prime any day over Beltran and Ortiz for my postseason roster. He has dropped off the HOF ballot entirely despite having great postseason numbers and playing a premium position.

Ortiz could potentially hit 500 but has a PED cloud over him. Beltran isn't even close in my opinion. And like I said, Vlad eclipses all of them but is still talked about as a borderline candidate.

?????

He batted .208 in world series play.

He was a great player, but his WS batting wasn't great.

Steve B

[packs]

What I'm really trying to say is Yankees and Bernie #1. Boston unranked. Haha it kills me they're one game away.