pwcc (part two)

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You said that unless he is indicted then he's not guilty of fraud -- that was wrong.

I said fraud occurred in his auctions and that whether or not he's indicted, fraud still occurred in his auctions -- that is correct. PS -- he can also be found liable for civil fraud.

As I'm not a prosecutor I don't control who gets indicted -- that is correct.

I understand these concepts are difficult for you because you're a clueless moron with no experience in these issues -- again, correct.

I think that the final determinant of Brent's is innocence or guilt will be a matter decided by the court, not by you or I. As I've said before, you think he's guilty and ought to be prosecuted - if you are correct, then I'm sure we'll see him behind bars. Now goodnight.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I think that the final determinant of Brent's is innocence or guilt will be a matter decided by the court, not by you or I. As I've said before, you think he's guilty and ought to be prosecuted - if you are correct, then I'm sure we'll see him behind bars. Now goodnight.

Not a single thing you wrote above is correct. LOL

[Peter_Spaeth]

Law enforcement has the means to investigate a small fraction of the frauds that occur in the hobby and elsewhere. Therefore, the notion that if someone is not the subject of a criminal proceeding they did not commit fraud is demonstrably false and patently absurd.

Conversely, the mere fact that someone is investigated or even indicted does not mean they committed fraud. An indictment is an allegation, nothing more.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

the notion that if someone is not the subject of a criminal proceeding they did not commit fraud is demonstrably false and patently absurd.

Never wrote that.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Conversely, the mere fact that someone is investigated or even indicted does not mean they committed fraud. An indictment is an allegation, nothing more.

I confused the words indictment and conviction. Meant to say convicted.

Jeff says he is guilty and ought to be prosecuted. I never said Brent was innocent, just that he shouldn't be prosecuted. If law enforcement chooses not to prosecute Brent, then obviously they agree with me and disagree with Jeff. If Brent is prosecuted and found innocent, then he still shouldn't have been prosecuted as he will have been exonerated. So for Jeff to be correct, Brent needs to be both prosecuted and convicted.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Jeff says he is guilty and ought to be prosecuted. I never said Brent was innocent, just that he shouldn't be prosecuted. If law enforcement chooses not to prosecute Brent, then obviously they agree with me and disagree with Jeff. If Brent is prosecuted and found innocent, then he still shouldn't have been prosecuted as he will have been exonerated. So for Jeff to be correct, Brent needs to be both prosecuted and convicted.

Here is what I wrote last night.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Not a single thing you wrote above is correct. LOL

Not a single thing about who you are as a human being is at all decent. Your attitude and manner are disgusting. And in fact you are wrong. You have said yourself that Brent has committed fraud and ought to be prosecuted, so go and do it. Otherwise, shut up about it already. Because anything other than getting it done is just blowing smoke up people's ass. It is all talk and no walk. If you think Brent has committed fraud and ought to be prosecuted, then either go find a way to put him behind bars, or just shut up already.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Not a single thing about who you are as a human being is at all decent. Your attitude and manner are disgusting. And in fact you are wrong. You have said yourself that Brent has committed fraud and ought to be prosecuted, so go and do it. Otherwise, shut up about it already. Because anything other than getting it done is just blowing smoke up people's ass. It is all talk and no walk. If you think Brent has committed fraud and ought to be prosecuted, then either go find a way to put him behind bars, or just shut up already.

It's rare to find someone who is so proud to be an ignorant jackass. You now have multiple lawyers on this thread pointing out how the educational system has failed you -- or perhaps you were just too busy braying like the jackass that you are and weren't listening in class that day or month. Your understanding of the legal system would appear as if you learned it all from watching the Flintstones.

One of the purposes of this board is to point out fraud. And fraud exists in PWCC auctions with the scans and the shill bidding. When the fraud stops, the comments about the fraud will stop, not just because a low grade moron like you wants it to stop. Just as I wasn't cowed by other jackasses years ago when I pointed out the Mastro fraud and they tried to change the subject, I won't be deterred by a simpleton like you. By screaming that if Brent isn't 'locked up behind bars' by sundown today then we should stop talking about it isn't going to work if you haven't noticed. But let's keep this issue going, the more we talk about it on here the more people are coming out with examples of fraud in his auctions. You're doing a great job of keeping the spotlight on the fraud in PWCC auctions.

[frankbmd]

"All rise.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................................
You may be seated"

Sorry, Judy is still with her make-up artist. The judge is averse to wrinkles ya know.

[ullmandds]

I must agree that us talking about this and keeping it at the forefront and making others aware and citing examples...is DOING something...despite the sentiment of some that since I'm not a blue collar worker...I'm a pussy for not busting knee caps and threatening people with bodily harm because I was shilled out of some cash.

You know who u are GiantSlayer!!!!!

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by calvindog

But let's keep this issue going, the more we talk about it on here the more people are coming out with examples of fraud in his auctions.

I'll ignore the insults, but let me say this - based on what I have seen so far, the only evidence against him seems to be that his scans are minimally brighter and that he allegedly doctored the image of a $643 hockey card. That doesn't seem like much to go on for a prosecution. If you have other people coming to you with examples that I don't know about, that is a different story.

I'm sorry that I got so upset, it's just that I don't like seeing people go to jail. And I just can't equate PWCC with Mastro. Maybe if there were more compelling evidence, I would feel differently. Anyways, I do apologize and I know that you think I'm an idiot. I just feel like I want to end my role in this, so this will be my last post on this thread.

Adieu.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Not a single thing about who you are as a human being is at all decent. Your attitude and manner are disgusting.

Jamie, it's one thing to be argumentative and confrontational, which is something I totally get, as I'm right there with you, but when someone who knows an area much better than you tells you that you are blowing hot air, why can't you just say thanks for the education and go from there? If you did that, you wouldn't get forced into a corner where all you can do is hurl insults.

The last thing I would do is try to force my lawn-chair thoughts on law, on Jeff or any of the other lawyers on this forum. Use them as a resource when you want to LEARN about law, and I'm sure they'll use you as a resource when they want to know about whatever it is you're good at.

[Fred]

Has this forum passed a guilty verdict on someone? Sounds like the court of Net54 opinion has passed judgement.

Cmmon guys, lets get back to cardboard!

Peace, love, understanding and all that $hit....

[ullmandds]

I think the talk about how the forum used to be...has caused this forum to revert back...in some ways...to the way this forum used to be!!!

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Jamie, it's one thing to be argumentative and confrontational, which is something I totally get, as I'm right there with you, but when someone who knows an area much better than you tells you that you are blowing hot air, why can't you just say thanks for the education and go from there? If you did that, you wouldn't get forced into a corner where all you can do is hurl insults.

The last thing I would do is try to force my lawn-chair thoughts on law, on Jeff or any of the other lawyers on this forum. Use them as a resource when you want to LEARN about law, and I'm sure they'll use you as a resource when they want to know about whatever it is you're good at.

They misinterpreted my argument. They thought that I felt Brent ought not be prosecuted because I believed he was innocent, but the real reason why is because there seems to be insufficient damages. See posts 69 and 109 where I discuss that so far there seems to be only $110.27 in damages.

That said, another reason that I feel compassionate towards Brent is that he is a small-time ebay dealer. Those guys have very tight margins. Yes, there seems to be some funny business going on in Brent's auctions, but why not go after the big fish first, before worrying about small-fries like Brent?

What about this thread:
http://net54baseball.com/showthread....ight=legendary

As for learning from Jeff, I'd be happy to do so as much as possible if he writes in a respectful, non-abusive manner. Before I wrote my insult, here's some of the things he wrote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Do you talk out of your ass all day? I mean is that what you do for a living? You have no idea how the process works and yet you continue to blabber on like a fourth grader. Why don't you focus on what you know? Like your scanner.

Originally Posted by calvindog

You're a jackass... What have you done besides drone on like a braying jackass?

Originally Posted by calvindog

Big surprise that fraud runs rampant in our hobby. Jamie Bonep@rth is exhibit A.

I would like nothing more than to make up with Jeff and get along well. That is why I apologized for the role that I played in the conflict. I would love an apology from him as well, but if that is not forthcoming, then hopefully we can still find a way co-exist in a civil manner.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Brent is a "small time ebay dealer"? Are you serious? He has 22,000 feedbacks in the last 12 months, and as we know that significantly UNDERSTATES the number of items he has sold. What planet is this thread on?

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Brent is a "small time ebay dealer"? Are you serious?

Well, even if he isn't small time, this is just how I feel about him. I went to his website and the photo of him smiling with his significant other. You can tell that they really love each other, and I'm sure that there are all these people in his life who really love him.

When you think about the amount of suffering it would cause to imprison him, it is scary. Based on where he lives, I am guessing that he would go to San Quentin. I have seen a documentary on that prison and it is really scary. There is a tremendous amount of violence in those environments.

The trouble is that when someone is the victim of violence like that, it creates a tremendous amount of trauma and suffering that can stay with them for many years, decades, and their entire life, even. It is a very sad thing and people who experience it often never fully recover.

I myself did volunteer work in a prison when I was a college student. The prisoners are very friendly to you and will smile, but what goes on behind the scenes is really ugly. I was counseling a gang leader in Springfield, and during my time with him, he and his "friends" beat up a rival gang member very badly. That guy had to be transferred to another prison and was in very bad condition. So the dynamics that go into play there are intense.

Now, I understand that Mastro & Co. did millions of dollars worth of fraud and their sentences will be well deserved. It was a tremendous and courageous effort on behalf of Jeff and many others, and I admire that tremendously. But the situation with PWCC seems far from that right now. The best evidence we had right now is just a hockey card scan missing a print dot.

Now, I realize that most likely more went on, but if the only concrete evidence of fraud we had is that hockey card, as well as some scans that are slightly brighter than usual, then to send him away to a place like San Quentin just for that would be incredibly cruel. And that I why I've found myself so upset about this issue.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I think that the final determinant of Brent's is innocence or guilt will be a matter decided by the court, not by you or I. As I've said before, you think he's guilty and ought to be prosecuted - if you are correct, then I'm sure we'll see him behind bars. Now goodnight.

Jeez, I'm not a lawyer and even I know that one can't be found "innocent" in a court of law. Just "not guilty". There's a difference. Look it up.

[bobbyw8469]

Long story short, PWCC gets UNREAL prices for his items, which attracts consignors, which attracts sales. Just check out completed listings for a 1956 Mantle #135 PSA 6 to see what I am talking about. Typically, a $800 card, his sells for over $2,000. My mind is blown everytime I see the prices his cards gets. Someone could make a decent living just buying my stuff and consigning it with Brent!!