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[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Makes perfect sense to me, Dave. I've been following this thread quietly, but you pretty well summed up my thoughts on the subject. I have 3 different scanners myself that I use for different scanning projects, and all 3 will give different results if you just throw something in there and scan away. In my experience, ALL scanners have different "factory settings" straight out of the box and/or different software for acquiring the scans which may/may not have similar "native" settings if left alone without adjustment.

To suggest that all scans of an item should look identical and match its actual appearance if you just use a "good" scanner and "don't adjust the settings" is naive at best, and to focus on whether the "color" of the card/flip/whatever is accurately represented on your monitor is like a dog chasing its tail. You know what color the flip is "supposed" to be, so just adjust the monitor on your end until that looks right. Then it won't matter whether the seller has done anything to monkey with the colors.

Now if there are specks, lines, creases, folds, tears, etc. that are visible with the card in hand that do not show up in the scan, that is another matter entirely, but still may be a result of the default settings in the scanning software. You have to remember that most scanning software is not designed with card collectors in mind. Believe it or not, the general public would actually LIKE for most tiny flaws to be removed or masked when they are scanning documents, family photos, magazine articles, etc. That is why scanning software with "Digital ICE" technology and other built-in "touch up" tools proudly state such on their packaging, and chances are, unless you "adjust" those settings (as in, turn them off), they're going to be actively cleaning up your scans straight out of the box. If you're more concerned with giving an "accurate" representation in the scanned image rather than the "best looking" image that the other 99% of non-card-collecting scanner users are going after, chances are, you're going to have to adjust some settings.

Or, you can just go with whatever the scanner poops out with its factory settings and just hope it displays accurately on the buyer's monitor. Then use the time you save by not adjusting settings to ponder why your camera won't take "good pictures" when you push the button or your television's picture always seems "too bright" when you plug it in or that song on your stereo doesn't "sound live" when you turn it on, even though you've left them all on their factory settings. Maybe you'll get lucky with factory settings, but it's more likely that you will have to make some adjustments to get your equipment to accurately reproduce real life.

Thanks Lance. I was hoping I wasn't the only one.

I remembered another thing about the "Digital Ice". It's a real memory hog and since I'm still running the same Dell computer system I was 8 years ago or so, it usually just locks everything up for 10 minutes or more while it "processes".

When I've used it for other projects it hasn't seemed to be too helpful for me, and doesn't do much more then the simpler dust removal program already does in a lot less time.

I've seen it "attempt" to fix a crease and it just comes out worse or badly shaded.........though I'm sure it's been upgraded since I got my copy of it.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I remembered another thing about the "Digital Ice". It's a real memory hog and since I'm still running the same Dell computer system I was 8 years ago or so, it usually just locks everything up for 10 minutes or more while it "processes".

When I've used it for other projects it hasn't seemed to be too helpful for me, and doesn't do much more then the simpler dust removal program already does in a lot less time.

I've seen it "attempt" to fix a crease and it just comes out worse or badly shaded.........though I'm sure it's been upgraded since I got my copy of it.

If you look at the photo comparison on Amazon for Digital-Ice, there is an old photo of a man standing up and a woman sitting down. As you can see in the photo, there is a profound difference once Digital-Ice is used. The wrinkles have disappeared almost completely.

If your computer is 8 years old and the system locks up every time you try to use Digital-Ice, that is one thing. But I doubt that would be a problem for the auction houses. We've had people on net54 provide scans where wrinkles seemed to have just disappeared from a card.

Don't you think it is possible that, in those instances, certain auction houses may have been using Digital-Ice???

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

If you look at the photo comparison on Amazon for Digital-Ice, there is an old photo of a man standing up and a woman sitting down. As you can see in the photo, there is a profound difference once Digital-Ice is used. The wrinkles have disappeared almost completely.

If your computer is 8 years old and the system locks up every time you try to use Digital-Ice, that is one thing. But I doubt that would be a problem for the auction houses. We've had people on net54 provide scans where wrinkles seemed to have just disappeared from a card.

Don't you think it is possible that, in those instances, certain auction houses may have been using Digital-Ice???

THEY WILL BE NOW

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

If you look at the photo comparison on Amazon for Digital-Ice, there is an old photo of a man standing up and a woman sitting down. As you can see in the photo, there is a profound difference once Digital-Ice is used. The wrinkles have disappeared almost completely.

If your computer is 8 years old and the system locks up every time you try to use Digital-Ice, that is one thing. But I doubt that would be a problem for the auction houses. We've had people on net54 provide scans where wrinkles seemed to have just disappeared from a card.

Don't you think it is possible that, in those instances, certain auction houses may have been using Digital-Ice???

If an auction house were inclined to do so, there are a thousand other tools I would pick over Digital Ice, though it wouldn't exactly shock me if somebody WAS using Digital Ice or any other program.

Like Lance said, a simple cloning brush will do the job better, without leaving the same sloppy evidence.

I'm sure the dust removal tool has been employed plenty, based on some of the before and after and before scans I've seen shown on Net54.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

When I've used it for other projects it hasn't seemed to be too helpful for me, and doesn't do much more then the simpler dust removal program already does in a lot less time.

That's my experience as well. No substantial difference between Digital-Ice and many of the dust/scratch removal functions built into (and automatically enabled) in many scanning programs. Useful in some situations perhaps, but certainly not the "magic fairy dust" cure-all that it's touted to be, and usually has the trade-off of a slightly-softer resulting image (as with every dust-removal fuction I've ever seen). In the cases where I really want to remove dust specks AND maintain sharpness, I have found it's better to just go in and do it manually. It may take longer, but so does painting a room with a roller and brush rather than a power sprayer. Sometimes the end result matters a little more than the time involved

And no, I don't think Digital-Ice is a looming spectre to be spoken of in hushed tones lest all auction houses should start employing it to "clean up" card scans. Anyone with an understanding of how it does what it does should be able to see its effects in a card scan, and a simple wave of the "clone" tool is far more effective in removing individual blemishes anyway. I think the example posted on Amazon in the Epson V700 write-up is an extreme example which turned out surprisingly well, and is not representative of typical results (and I suspect even it would show evidence of DI being used if a larger scan than the one posted were available). Bottom line: if a seller is determined to make a card look better than it really is, there are far more effective ways to do so than hitting the scan with a blanket Digital-Ice application.