pwcc

[Runscott]

I can only remember having to tweak scans for slabbed cards i.e.-raw cards and photos were fine with default settings.

[HRBAKER]

Just don't start twerking your scans.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Just don't start twerking your scans.

lmao

[slipk1068]

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=350846238664


Does anyone believe this bid history looks legit?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=350846238664


Does anyone believe this bid history looks legit?

No. There's fraud in that PWCC auction which has nothing to do with the scanner used.

[Exhibitman]

Wow, that's some skeevy bunch of underbidders. 0 feedback, private feedback with 56% activity with this seller, others who seem to have come over from the home and garden section...the eBay equivalent of the characters who hang around 7/11 parking lots.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I can only remember having to tweak scans for slabbed cards i.e.-raw cards and photos were fine with default settings.

Scott,

Same here. I was discussing this with another board member last night via PM. Here's why that is. There are basically two types of scanner technology:

CIS (Contact Image Sensor) - these are good if you're only scanning flat items such as raw cards, photos, magazine articles, etc - items that lay flat, directly on the scanner bed.

CCD (Charge Coupled Device) - these are good for slabbed cards or anything that doesn't lay directly on the scanner bed. Yes, the plastic slab itself does, but the card is elevated from the bed because of the slab.

That's why if you're scanning a BGS/BVG card with CIS technology, it is blurry because the those slabs are so thick. Get a CCD scanner and the problem goes away.

So, anyone using a scanner with CIS technology may have to tweak the settings to get a good representation of the actual card.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott,

Same here. I was discussing this with another board member last night via PM. Here's why that is. There are basically two types of scanner technology:

CIS (Contact Image Sensor) - these are good if you're only scanning flat items such as raw cards, photos, magazine articles, etc - items that lay flat, directly on the scanner bed.

CCD (Charge Coupled Device) - these are good for slabbed cards or anything that doesn't lay directly on the scanner bed. Yes, the plastic slab itself does, but the card is elevated from the bed because of the slab.

That's why if you're scanning a BGS/BVG card with CIS technology, it is blurry because the those slabs are so thick. Get a CCD scanner and the problem goes away.

So, anyone using a scanner with CIS technology may have to tweak the settings to get a good representation of the actual card.

Yes, I know. I have both scanner types. My slabbed cards still require adjustments - yes, scans are crisp and clear using CCD for slabs, but contrast and color are sometimes off. If anyone who has bought a slabbed card from me thinks my scans look freaky, just say so and I'll rethink things.

[nolemmings]

Bamberger cards are all over the place and again, the two shown are different and almost certainly the product of two different scanners. Here are three more on Ebay that I "randomly" picked. Do they look more like PWCCs scan or the other one selected by our objective reporter? Also, search 1959 Bamberger and see the variety of tones exhibited.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Todd, lots of scans are not accurate. I compared it with one that in my experience looks like the card. I do not believe the color varies that much on the actual card. And look at the flip on the PSA Bamberger. My flips do not look nearly that bright in person. Do yours? That one almost glows. The scan is too bright, in my opinion.

[nolemmings]

Peter, why don't you just give Brent the Monty Python test and ask him if he weighs the same as a duck? IMO It's a far more accurate and entertaining witch hunt than the one you keep dragging along here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

No witch hunt, Todd. Someone posted he thought Brent had fixed the issue with his scans glowing too brightly (the issue Brent claimed here he had never heard about yet had posted a vehement denial many months ago). I looked at some recent auctions, and in my opinion they are still too bright. If you disagree with my opinion and your flips glow that brightly, that's cool.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Todd, lots of scans are not accurate. I compared it with one that in my experience looks like the card. I do not believe the color varies that much on the actual card. And look at the flip on the PSA Bamberger. My flips do not look nearly that bright in person. Do yours? That one almost glows. The scan is too bright, in my opinion.

I compared the PWCC Bamberger to the PWCC T207. On both flips, the red shows up a bit bright. That is true. It is bright compared to the Canoscan T207, as well. So Peter may have a point here that the scans are still being brightened, just not as egregiously as before.

Soon we could be living in a world where cards are partly identified by their scans. Instead of buying a "52 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8", you could be buying a "Canoscan 9900F 52 Topps Mantle PSA 8 Hue +6, Brightness +10 with minor color adjustments".

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, I know. I have both scanner types. My slabbed cards still require adjustments - yes, scans are crisp and clear using CCD for slabs, but contrast and color are sometimes off. If anyone who has bought a slabbed card from me thinks my scans look freaky, just say so and I'll rethink things.

The scanner technology doesn't matter as much for color/contrast as it does for focus. CCD is indeed better for items with any sort of depth.

But the software usually makes it's own adjustments. Mine is actually CCD and old. But the new software makes it's own adjustments. I can actually see the adjustment being made. I do a preview scan, then select the area and once the area is selected that area changes compared to the rest of the background. Since I scan with the lid open to get a black background it darkens the entire scanned area so the background is truly black.

The old version of the software would not make that adjustment, so if for instance the lamp beside the scanner was on the background would scan as blackish changing to a dark red in the area closer to the lamp.
As an interesting tech note, the range of the CCD sensor Epson used is somewhat more than 2 feet! One scan with the lamp on had the lamp itself recognizable in the background.

I believe my scanner is adjusting the white balance as it goes, but that's going off recalling my familys first video camera needing the white balance set before each use. If it wasn't done the colors were usually way off.

So I know Epson autoadjusts, and from what I'm reading Cannon probably does as well. Other brands might not, or might do it in a way that's less accurate.

We should also recall that monitors don't display color the same either. And that the flat screen ones are dependent on the viewing angle. On mine viewing from an angle below the monitor (Like reclining a bit in an office chair with the monitor at a slight upward angle) results in black appearing blue.

The scans Peter shows do appear to be a bit oversaturated for color, but as someone else showed the colors used for the cards also varied.

Steve B

[D. Bergin]

I have an Epson V700, which cost a lot of dough IMO and is CCD based.

I constantly have to adjust in Professional mode to try and make items look as close to realistic as possible, depending on what is being scanned.

I'm not talking brightness and contrast and such........I'm not touching those features unless it's something that legitimately needs to be touched up for non-auction/selling reasons.

I'm talking the Sharpness and Descreen features, and the levels those features are set at. A newspaper is scanned differently from a magazine which is scanned differently from a lithograph which is scanned differently from a real photo.

Sometimes on older photos with off-white borders or backs you have to disable the automatic brightness that gets implemented on the initial pre-scan because it makes it too bright and exaggerated, sometimes it comes out closer to reality and you keep it.

On many printed style baseball cards, postcards or magazines, you have to implement the descreen into magazine setting in order to keep the cross-hatch or dot patterns from over-whelming the scan, and then you have to implement the sharpness setting at the same time, in order to keep the descreen setting from dulling down the card/item too much.

A few other things, you should always be scanning in photo mode and not document mode. You should also be disabling such features as dust removal and color adjustment at all times, unless it's something not related to re-selling something.

I'm sure a lot of these large ebay consignment auction houses have several different people scanning with several different scanners, using several types of settings, and this is a reason for several of the differences you see.

Maybe I'm rambling but I hope this makes some sort of sense to somebody. Maybe I'm just worrying too much about it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Other than the scanner technology (CCD vs CIS), there are some other things to consider too such as the light source. Your Epson uses a CFL (cathode flourescent lamp) light source and, from what I understand, most of the Cannons are using an LED light source which is supposed to be a lot better.

[cyseymour]

I was looking at the Epson 700, and it has a feature called DIGITAL ICE. It is advertised as "DIGITAL ICE - remove the appearance of tears and creases from damaged photos"

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-B11B1780...rds=epson+v700

We've had a lot of people on this board complain of auction house scans where you can't see the creases on the card. Does anyone think that those auction houses might be applying this DIGITAL ICE technology to their scans?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I have an Epson V700, which cost a lot of dough IMO and is CCD based.

I constantly have to adjust in Professional mode to try and make items look as close to realistic as possible, depending on what is being scanned.

I'm not talking brightness and contrast and such........I'm not touching those features unless it's something that legitimately needs to be touched up for non-auction/selling reasons.

I'm talking the Sharpness and Descreen features, and the levels those features are set at. A newspaper is scanned differently from a magazine which is scanned differently from a lithograph which is scanned differently from a real photo.

Sometimes on older photos with off-white borders or backs you have to disable the automatic brightness that gets implemented on the initial pre-scan because it makes it too bright and exaggerated, sometimes it comes out closer to reality and you keep it.

On many printed style baseball cards, postcards or magazines, you have to implement the descreen into magazine setting in order to keep the cross-hatch or dot patterns from over-whelming the scan, and then you have to implement the sharpness setting at the same time, in order to keep the descreen setting from dulling down the card/item too much.

A few other things, you should always be scanning in photo mode and not document mode. You should also be disabling such features as dust removal and color adjustment at all times, unless it's something not related to re-selling something.

I'm sure a lot of these large ebay consignment auction houses have several different people scanning with several different scanners, using several types of settings, and this is a reason for several of the differences you see.

Maybe I'm rambling but I hope this makes some sort of sense to somebody. Maybe I'm just worrying too much about it.

Makes perfect sense to me, Dave. I've been following this thread quietly, but you pretty well summed up my thoughts on the subject. I have 3 different scanners myself that I use for different scanning projects, and all 3 will give different results if you just throw something in there and scan away. In my experience, ALL scanners have different "factory settings" straight out of the box and/or different software for acquiring the scans which may/may not have similar "native" settings if left alone without adjustment.

To suggest that all scans of an item should look identical and match its actual appearance if you just use a "good" scanner and "don't adjust the settings" is naive at best, and to focus on whether the "color" of the card/flip/whatever is accurately represented on your monitor is like a dog chasing its tail. You know what color the flip is "supposed" to be, so just adjust the monitor on your end until that looks right. Then it won't matter whether the seller has done anything to monkey with the colors.

Now if there are specks, lines, creases, folds, tears, etc. that are visible with the card in hand that do not show up in the scan, that is another matter entirely, but still may be a result of the default settings in the scanning software. You have to remember that most scanning software is not designed with card collectors in mind. Believe it or not, the general public would actually LIKE for most tiny flaws to be removed or masked when they are scanning documents, family photos, magazine articles, etc. That is why scanning software with "Digital ICE" technology and other built-in "touch up" tools proudly state such on their packaging, and chances are, unless you "adjust" those settings (as in, turn them off), they're going to be actively cleaning up your scans straight out of the box. If you're more concerned with giving an "accurate" representation in the scanned image rather than the "best looking" image that the other 99% of non-card-collecting scanner users are going after, chances are, you're going to have to adjust some settings.

Or, you can just go with whatever the scanner poops out with its factory settings and just hope it displays accurately on the buyer's monitor. Then use the time you save by not adjusting settings to ponder why your camera won't take "good pictures" when you push the button or your television's picture always seems "too bright" when you plug it in or that song on your stereo doesn't "sound live" when you turn it on, even though you've left them all on their factory settings. Maybe you'll get lucky with factory settings, but it's more likely that you will have to make some adjustments to get your equipment to accurately reproduce real life.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Makes perfect sense to me, Dave. I've been following this thread quietly, but you pretty well summed up my thoughts on the subject. I have 3 different scanners myself that I use for different scanning projects, and all 3 will give different results if you just throw something in there and scan away. In my experience, ALL scanners have different "factory settings" straight out of the box and/or different software for acquiring the scans which may/may not have similar "native" settings if left alone without adjustment.

To suggest that all scans of an item should look identical and match its actual appearance if you just use a "good" scanner and "don't adjust the settings" is naive at best, and to focus on whether the "color" of the card/flip/whatever is accurately represented on your monitor is like a dog chasing its tail. You know what color the flip is "supposed" to be, so just adjust the monitor on your end until that looks right. Then it won't matter whether the seller has done anything to monkey with the colors.

Now if there are specks, lines, creases, folds, tears, etc. that are visible with the card in hand that do not show up in the scan, that is another matter entirely, but still may be a result of the default settings in the scanning software. You have to remember that most scanning software is not designed with card collectors in mind. Believe it or not, the general public would actually LIKE for most tiny flaws to be removed or masked when they are scanning documents, family photos, magazine articles, etc. That is why scanning software with "Digital ICE" technology and other built-in "touch up" tools proudly state such on their packaging, and chances are, unless you "adjust" those settings (as in, turn them off), they're going to be actively cleaning up your scans straight out of the box. If you're more concerned with giving an "accurate" representation in the scanned image rather than the "best looking" image that the other 99% of non-card-collecting scanner users are going after, chances are, you're going to have to adjust some settings.

Or, you can just go with whatever the scanner poops out with its factory settings and just hope it displays accurately on the buyer's monitor. Then use the time you save by not adjusting settings to ponder why your camera won't take "good pictures" when you push the button or your television's picture always seems "too bright" when you plug it in or that song on your stereo doesn't "sound live" when you turn it on, even though you've left them all on their factory settings. Maybe you'll get lucky with factory settings, but it's more likely that you will have to make some adjustments to get your equipment to accurately reproduce real life.

Thanks Lance. I was hoping I wasn't the only one.

I remembered another thing about the "Digital Ice". It's a real memory hog and since I'm still running the same Dell computer system I was 8 years ago or so, it usually just locks everything up for 10 minutes or more while it "processes".

When I've used it for other projects it hasn't seemed to be too helpful for me, and doesn't do much more then the simpler dust removal program already does in a lot less time.

I've seen it "attempt" to fix a crease and it just comes out worse or badly shaded.........though I'm sure it's been upgraded since I got my copy of it.