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  #1  
Old 10-14-2013, 10:31 AM
BigJJ BigJJ is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 613
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Along the lines of Michael's post above, regarding Mastro - It has not been made clear -who were the owners - of the pieces that were shill bid. In other words, were 20%, 50%, 80% of the pieces that were shill bid owned by the Company? owned by its head? I was never happy with the prices my particular pieces received. If they owned a great number of the pieces that were being shill bid, this would poke a hole also in the idea of - 'trying to do the best for our consignors'.

Last edited by BigJJ; 10-14-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2013, 11:28 AM
springpin springpin is offline
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We live in an accepting society. People in prominent positions as Bill Clinton, Oliver North, Elliot Spitzer, Anthony Wiener, Paula Deen, etc., fall from grace, and following a period of exile, they return refreshed, rejuvenated, and rehabilitated. Some even achieve higher recognition after their return than before. It will be argued that the people who were shilled (including me) got what they wanted, albeit they were overcharged. The Wagner card is not a reproduction or fake; it was simply trimmed years after it was originally produced. Is this fraud? Yes, but less severe than if the card itself was a reproduction. I am not a card collector, but I suspect many card collectors would rather have a trimmed card in their collection than not have the card at all. Now that we definitively know the Wagner card was trimmed, no one is alleging the card is worthless. Collecting tastes and values change over time. Perhaps years from now few will care that a card was trimmed. If I understand how cards are made, at some point in their history all cards were trimmed from sheets. I also will not be surprised if today's villains are accepted back into the hobby after a period of time. I think we place more value on the items in our collections than we have contempt for the people who overcharged us.
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2013, 05:34 PM
Giants00 Giants00 is offline
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Springpin,
I was sort of with you until he attacked a collector on a message board, clearly showing zero remorse. If you believe the FBI, as much as $1m was ripped off consumers. Bill defends by saying that he was legitimately trying to buy the items. Then he attacks people for making money.
Until there is some recognition and remorse, I would not go near him.
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