An Open Letter to Bill Mastro

[sports-rings]

Well, I recall a couple of items that I remember sold for my max bid. But since I have always considered them good buys, I have never felt too steamed about it.

i just read Peter Nash's blog entry on this matter at haulsofshame

Someone posted a great line in the comments section: Even if you were never part of a shill bid, you still lose. (Guess he means shill bidding drives up pricing for the entire hobby)

On a releated note, I hate Hunt Auction's phantom bidding on behalf of the consigner. Maybe someone can explain the difference to me of this practice vs. shill bidding!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

i just read Peter Nash's blog entry on this matter at houlsofshame

Someone posted a great line in the comments section: Even if you were never part of a shill bid, you still lose. (Guess he means shill bidding drives up pricing for the entire hobby)

On a releated note, I hate Hunt Auction's phantom bidding on behalf of the consigner. Maybe someone can explain the difference to me of this practice vs. shill bidding!

I seem to always pay my ceiling bid for Hunt items. It didn't used to be that way. If they are going to shill me in the future (if I even participate in any more of their auctions), they will have to actually outbid me - no more ceiling bids for me.

If I ever got shilled at Mastro, the shilling still never approached my ceiling bids, on average. I got a lot of great deals.

[sports-rings]

I just want to be clear, I am not accusing Hunt of shill bidding. They have a process where they bid for the consigner until the minimum is met (it's in their auction rules).

if you are a phone bidder during a live auction, you have no idea if you are bidding against a live bidder or Hunt on behalf of their consigner.

I call this Phantom bidding and I no longer wish to bid in their live auctions

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

I just want to be clear, I am not accusing Hunt of shill bidding. They have a process where they bid for the consigner until the minimum is met (it's in their auction rules).

if you are a phone bidder during a live auction, you have no idea if you are bidding against a live bidder or Hunt on behalf of their consigner.

I call this Phantom bidding and I no longer wish to bid in their live auctions

I don't like phantom bidding either, though I am sure it's legal when clearly stated in the rules. If you want to do that, just have a reserve and state it. To me, having bidding that is not intended to win the item seems deceiving.

[HRBAKER]

The deceit comes in if you actually think you are engaged in bidding with another party who wants to win it as opposed to say, already owns it. Disclosed or not, slimy. Just say you are having as sale as opposed to an auction.

[perezfan]

Hunt's is simply exercising a hidden reserve. Since the auctions are live, the "phantom bidding" is the only way to get the item to meet the consignor's minimum. I can see how it is frustrating for the "real bidder", but it is just an alternate way of establishing a minimum bid amount.

[Runscott]

I have never complained to an auction house about strange bids, until I recently paid my ceiling for every single item in a Hunts auction. It was just way too much of a coincidence.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hunt's is simply exercising a hidden reserve. Since the auctions are live, the "phantom bidding" is the only way to get the item to meet the consignor's minimum. I can see how it is frustrating for the "real bidder", but it is just an alternate way of establishing a minimum bid amount.

Isn't an alternative way of establishing a minimum amount to set the reserve from the outset? As opposed to having an illusory auction process taking place up to the minimum.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hunt's is simply exercising a hidden reserve. Since the auctions are live, the "phantom bidding" is the only way to get the item to meet the consignor's minimum. I can see how it is frustrating for the "real bidder", but it is just an alternate way of establishing a minimum bid amount.

Mark,

You and I usually see eye-to-eye on most things, but if you're saying that an auction house bidding on an item to exercise a hidden reserve is the same (or even similar) as having a stated, transparent reserve, I disagree. The first practice can falsely imply another "real" bidder is increasing the price of an item, whereas the second practice clearly defines that the auction house/consignor has determined the minimum for which an item will sell.

Big difference, in my opinion.

Rob