Bill Mastro denies widespread fraud in his auctions -- yesterday.

[botn]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You're kidding, right? The man threatened how many people in this hobby? Steadfastly denied shill bidding even while he was ripping off hundreds if not thousands of people? I think there is plenty of credible stuff to tell the judge about Bill Mastro.

Actually Jeff, I am not kidding. Apparently you think the rest of us have seen the evidence that you some how got to see. How can anyone write a letter as a victim if they do not know they are a victim? Maybe you are simply suggesting everyone should do their civic duty by writing letters to judges who are about to sentence people who have been convicted of or admitted to committing felonies

Please tell me how Mastro bidders are supposed to know Bill threatened people and the details of those threats? All I know about Bill is that he ran an auction house, he was a collector, he has now admitted to trimming the T206 which is in a PSA 8 holder and has admitted to shill bidding.

Does Guzman really need to hear from outsiders to tell him to put the bad guys away?

[base_ball]

At this point, letters speaking to the man's character would be as good as letters regarding shill bidding. The idea is to move the judge closer to the five-year maximum sentence. To that end, I submit the following encounter I had with Mastro, long before the criminal enterprise formerly known as MastroNet existed. It was small potatoes, but captures the essence of a shyster. Originally posted on this forum in May 2007, in response to "Worst Collecting Experience":

---------
Early 90s…I buy a Babe Ruth signature watch via mail from a dealer in Rhode Island, not the common 40s character, but the rarer late 20s-early 30s art deco watch with Ruth’s facsimile autograph on the face. I showed the watch to my dad, an antique timepiece collector, who popped open the watch and said to me, “you just paid $500 (or $300?) for a dial.” What I bought was a watch face placed onto a movement too small for what may or not have been the original case so the movement had to be built out with a waxy substance so that it would fit into the case. I returned the watch and had my money returned, no questions asked.

Fast forward to a major Sotheby’s auction, the Copeland Collection, I believe, but certainly a sale with William Mastro consulting for the great New York house. There’s a Babe Ruth signature watch lot. It looks familiar. Very familiar. I go to the viewing. I get to meet the legendary Bill Mastro. I ask to see the inside of the watch. He says they can’t do that. I say it’s Sotheby’s and they have someone there who surely can open a watch. They open the watch and it is, of course, the very same watch I owned briefly: same scratch on the crystal, same waxy substance, same watch. I point out the problems to Mastro. He says, “So?” I tell him I owned the watch, bla, bla, bla…he says, “Impossible. It’s been part of the same collection for years.” Oh well, maybe someone had been mass-producing these things for years.

The watch sold for 900 bucks. I learned a very valuable lesson in expertise.

[calvindog]

Joe, good story.

Greg, it sounds like you don't have a problem with Bill so you might not be the correct person to write to the judge. Maybe you can write to him about JP Cohen?

In all seriousness, defendants send scores of so-called character letters to sentencing judges in an effort to convince the judge that the defendant is a better person than the crime he committed would indicate, that there is another side of the defendant. Rarely, however, do victims of the defendant write in and provide a human face to the ramifications of the crimes. I can tell you that such letters make a difference. I'm not suggesting for a second I want Mastro to get maximum jail time, I just want the sentencing judge to know the truth about what Mastro is which, at least yesterday, made clear he still refuses to accept responsibility for his crimes and continues to blame others for what he and only he did.

[botn]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Joe, good story.

Greg, it sounds like you don't have a problem with Bill so you might not be the correct person to write to the judge. Maybe you can write to him about JP Cohen?

In all seriousness, defendants send scores of so-called character letters to sentencing judges in an effort to convince the judge that the defendant is a better person than the crime he committed would indicate, that there is another side of the defendant. Rarely, however, do victims of the defendant write in and provide a human face to the ramifications of the crimes. I can tell you that such letters make a difference. I'm not suggesting for a second I want Mastro to get maximum jail time, I just want the sentencing judge to know the truth about what Mastro is which, at least yesterday, made clear he still refuses to accept responsibility for his crimes and continues to blame others for what he and only he did.

Oh Jeff, you know big brother is watching me so I have to be nice to everyone--especially JP Cohen otherwise I will not be able to post here and what would you and others do without my valuable posts? Actually hoping JP will become an advertiser soon.

Thanks for the info on the character letters. Assume you wrote yours? If not, I guess you can just cut and paste comments you made here to save time having to retype everything.

[Griffins]

I think you're thinking of Don Steinbach. I've got Mastro & Steinbach catalogs from about '97-'99.

[HRBAKER]

Here's to hoping he is the first of many. This hobby needs an enema.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Here's to hoping he is the first of many. This hobby needs an enema.

Dude, you stole my line!! Maybe that was the other thread.

[bigtrain]

Adam's point is well taken. I don't know if I was a victim or not. Nevertheless,the damage done to the hobby as a whole is tremendous and the Judge should be made aware of that.
I know that Peter Nash would accuse Rob Lifson of kidnapping the Lindbergh baby if not for the fact that that happened decades before Rob was born. Nevertheless, as to his assertion on the Hauls of Shame website that Lifson knew the Wagner was trimmed when he sold it in 2000, I would like to know whether this can be proven or whether it is just another pot shot at REA that Nash likes to take at every opportunity.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Adam's point is well taken. I don't know if I was a victim or not. Nevertheless,the damage done to the hobby as a whole is tremendous and the Judge should be made aware of that.

+1

I guess the current owner of the highest graded Wagner is happy with the item irregardless of whether it was trimmed or not...or that it's thus graded and priced inaccurately... his quote from Yahoo Sports states.."As a collector of rare cards and a fan who enjoys the history of the game of baseball, today's news does not change my pride in owning the Honus Wagner T-206 card. In fact, I've been advised that the notoriety of this turn of events has actually increased the value of the card and I will continue to enjoy having it as part of the 'Diamondbacks collection.' "

Well he should heed Adam's words...if he's truly in it for the "fun of collceting" he should be saddened by this turn of events like all of us are...

Ricky Y

[jhs5120]

We should put together a petition with as many signatures we can get. Someone should write a letter describing the state of the hobby and the corruption and fraud and how much we support a strict penalty for Mastro. I would certainly sign that!

[CaramelMan]

who was Bill's partner at the time? wasn't someone else his equal in that AH?

didn't the company continue, just with a name change?

who is to say the shenanigans stopped just because they changed a name?

[CobbvLajoie1910]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

who was Bill's partner at the time ? wasn't someone else his equal in that AH?

didn't the company continue, just with a name change?

who is to say the shenanigans stopped just because they changed a name?

....that would be Uncle Jeff's old buddy Dougie Allen.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CaramelMan

who was Bill's partner at the time? wasn't someone else his equal in that AH?

didn't the company continue, just with a name change?

who is to say the shenanigans stopped just because they changed a name?

It wasn't called Smith auctions...it was Mastro Auctions..Bill owned it, or the majority of it. The company sold to Legendary Auctions and the executives at Mastro are the executives at Legendary, plus or minus one or two....
...No one said anything about anything stopping. As of yesterday the investigation was ongoing. I heard that from a reliable source.

[sports-rings]

with all this talk of shill bidding, I'm so glad I don't provide auction houses my max bid. It's like leaving a stranger a key to your house.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by botn

Actually Jeff, I am not kidding. Apparently you think the rest of us have seen the evidence that you some how got to see. How can anyone write a letter as a victim if they do not know they are a victim? Maybe you are simply suggesting everyone should do their civic duty by writing letters to judges who are about to sentence people who have been convicted of or admitted to committing felonies

Please tell me how Mastro bidders are supposed to know Bill threatened people and the details of those threats? All I know about Bill is that he ran an auction house, he was a collector, he has now admitted to trimming the T206 which is in a PSA 8 holder and has admitted to shill bidding.

Does Guzman really need to hear from outsiders to tell him to put the bad guys away?

Now I wish I saved the email thread that I had with Bill!

I was Selling an SGC 60/5 E90-1 Ty Cobb. In the end... I decided not to sell it to him... at ALL, For any amount! (I decided not to sell it to him because he began to become frustrated & abusive during our email negotiations) He then delivered "A Most threating speech", that would of made you, have Jeff's Desire, to see Bill get what he deserves!

After about a year went by, I read that Good ole' Bill found religion to help save his neck! I knew from our email conversation's that he must of went through a "Quicking" in his conversion.

I eventually sold the card through REA and received a Fair price, $3,000 more than the Belligerent Bill swore It wasn't worth!

This is All I Know About Bill... And I don't Care if he Trimmed the "The Card"!

As Always...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by botn

"in a PSA 8 holder"

In a holder by complicity or poorly done work???

[shelly]

I am sorry to repeat this over and over again. I was there when the card was graded. So was Bill Heitman. Bill Huges came out and admited at that time the card was trimmed. For Psa to bury there heads in the sand and say they had no idea is total BS.
What amazed me the most is that the card guys belived Mastro and not there own eys.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by shelly

I am sorry to repeat this over and over again. I was there when the card was graded. So was Bill Heitman. Bill Huges came out and admited at that time the card was trimmed. For Psa to bury there heads in the sand and say they had no idea is total BS.
What amazed me the most is that the card guys belived Mastro and not there own eys.

Shelly you were there at PSA when (according to legend) Bill Hughes graded it? Who else was there and what were the discussions at the time?

[shelly]

It would take to long to write what took place. I would suggest reading the card I think it has all the info you will need. I can also tell you that I called Bruce on a bet after he bought the card. He said he knew it was trimmed but they where going to make a fortune just on the publicity.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by shelly

It would take to long to write what took place. I would suggest reading the card I think it has all the info you will need. I can also tell you that I called Bruce on a bet after he bought the card. He said he knew it was trimmed but they where going to make a fortune just on the publicity.

Hey, Bruce ended up in prison -- where Bill Mastro will soon be as well. Circle of Life for fraudsters.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hey, Bruce ended up in prison -- where Bill Mastro will soon be as well. Circle of Life for fraudsters.

Well, not all card trimmers, eh?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by shelly

It would take to long to write what took place. I would suggest reading the card I think it has all the info you will need. I can also tell you that I called Bruce on a bet after he bought the card. He said he knew it was trimmed but they where going to make a fortune just on the publicity.

I've read it but it doesn't go into details such as who was there and what was said and only has Hughes' account, and people have cast doubts on Hughes' credibility. So your perspective would be very informative should you have the time to convey it.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Shelly you were there at PSA when (according to legend) Bill Hughes graded it? Who else was there and what were the discussions at the time?

Yeah I am a bit confused too. I had never heard by anyone's account that Shelly was there. Yesterday I learned about character letters and today learned that there were a whole lot of people at PSA when the T206 Wagner was graded an 8.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Just think, if Hanky (Joe) Panky had handled the card it would have come back a "9".