1951 Wheaties Premiums

[BigJJ]

On certain days in April, Mantle is wearing a long sleeve underjersey - other days a short sleeve underjersey - such as the photo in question.

So we're looking for date where Mantle has the same pimple display, is wearing a home jersey, no patch on upper left arm, shortsleeve underjersey, Yankee Stadium, in April 1951.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by BigJJ

On certain days in April, Mantle is wearing a long sleeve underjersey - other days a short sleeve underjersey - such as the photo in question.

So we're looking for date where Mantle has the same pimple display, is wearing a home jersey, no patch on upper left arm, shortsleeve underjersey, Yankee Stadium, in April 1951.

Jon:

Here is the ORIGINAL photo on the Getty site.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ne...VItFb3Wu.xLWQQ

It says circa 1955, Created 1/1/55 Obviously the photo was not taken on New Years day, but do you know how Getty dates the photos?

note NO PINSTRIPES. They must have been added to the "Wheaties" issue.

Also ALL uniforms in 1951 had the arm patch, so my take is the shot can not be from 1951.

We are trying to determine the date of the photo to see if indeed the "Wheaties" set could have been issued in 1951. If the dates on the Getty site are correct and the photo is from 1955 then the set cannot be 1951.

Make sense? Any ideas?

Fred

[doug.goodman]

I can't date it, but here's another time it was used...

[Runscott]

You guys are making me feel huge, with all the '1951' talk. Be careful - my card ego is already too big, no need to add to my growing autograph ego.

[GKreindler]

Hey all,

I'm on vacation for the week, but a friend pointed this thread out to me.

I won't have all of my resources available until I get back, but I can assure you that this Mantle image is NOT from '51. Fred was right in mentioning the patch detail. Also worthy of note is that the photo was taken at Ebbets Field. The only time the Yanks were there was for the exhibition right before the season started, and they certainly had the patches on their sleeves then.

My first gut reaction is that the shot is from the '52 World Series, taken during one of the games in Brooklyn. Though the Yanks also had patches on their sleeves that same year, it didn't extend to the postseason (or at least, the away jerseys).

When I get home, I'll dig up the photo evidence, and even try and match up the adverts on the wall to the same year. But in summation, definitely not '51!

Graig

PS: I am familiar with the photo that you guys posted, but I have never really studied it in depth. It's hard to tell from the scan on the board, but there's no evidence of a patch being airbrushed out, right?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Hey all,

I'm on vacation for the week, but a friend pointed this thread out to me.

I won't have all of my resources available until I get back, but I can assure you that this Mantle image is NOT from '51. Fred was right in mentioning the patch detail. Also worthy of note is that the photo was taken at Ebbets Field. The only time the Yanks were there was for the exhibition right before the season started, and they certainly had the patches on their sleeves then.

My first gut reaction is that the shot is from the '52 World Series, taken during one of the games in Brooklyn. Though the Yanks also had patches on their sleeves that same year, it didn't extend to the postseason (or at least, the away jerseys).

When I get home, I'll dig up the photo evidence, and even try and match up the adverts on the wall to the same year. But in summation, definitely not '51!

Graig

PS: I am familiar with the photo that you guys posted, but I have never really studied it in depth. It's hard to tell from the scan on the board, but there's no evidence of a patch being airbrushed out, right?

Graig,

Since when do you get a vacation? I'm going to have to talk to Dean about this. First he lets you get married, and now this?! We will expect a full report when you get back, including what shade of red is appropriate to use for "Mickey Mantle's acne." (And don't act like you haven't already spent hours obsessing over that one. You're like the reverse of those school photographers who were always trying to get us to pay to have those blemishes removed from our photos.)

J/k. Much love to you and the Mrs., wherever you may be. I look forward to seeing what you dig up upon returning to home base.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Hey all,

I'm on vacation for the week, but a friend pointed this thread out to me.

I won't have all of my resources available until I get back, but I can assure you that this Mantle image is NOT from '51. Fred was right in mentioning the patch detail. Also worthy of note is that the photo was taken at Ebbets Field. The only time the Yanks were there was for the exhibition right before the season started, and they certainly had the patches on their sleeves then.

My first gut reaction is that the shot is from the '52 World Series, taken during one of the games in Brooklyn. Though the Yanks also had patches on their sleeves that same year, it didn't extend to the postseason (or at least, the away jerseys).

When I get home, I'll dig up the photo evidence, and even try and match up the adverts on the wall to the same year. But in summation, definitely not '51!

Graig

PS: I am familiar with the photo that you guys posted, but I have never really studied it in depth. It's hard to tell from the scan on the board, but there's no evidence of a patch being airbrushed out, right?

Hi Guys,

So this is all I know about this photo. The original photo (without facsimile auto) was taken by Don Wingfield at Ebbets Field. The original image is exactly what was used for the 1951 Wheaties series (they added the pinstripes and enhanced the uniform folds editorially).

Now the date. Having over 150 Type I prints of the Mick as a rookie, I can tell you that the facial characteristics (including the much discussed acne) and what I can see of his body all shout 1951.

Support for 1952 comes from a Type I print with a 1952 date stamp (which if I remember correctly was from October supporting Graig's contention). It is also possible that this print was used for something else in 1952 and reflects that and not when it was taken.

I have a Type I of the original negative and there does not appear to be any evidence of editorial removal of a '51 nor '52 patch. Moreover, I have several Type I's of Mickey in spring training of 1952 and in all of them he is wearing a 1951 top where you can clearly see an outline of the '51 patch that has been removed on his left sleeve.

This photo was used for at least 3 premium photo issues that I am aware of (all with slightly different styles of facsimile autos) in addition to several PM-10 pins.

Finally, one definitive way to date the photo would be some hard evidence as to when the 1951 Wheaties series was created - Feb, March, April of '51 or after September 1952?

Hope this helps more than confuses.

Cheers,

Craig

[whiteymet]

Hi Craig and Graig

Thanks for all the info! We are finally getting down to the gist of my question.

But I am seeing conflicting thoughts/theories/info from the both of you.

Graig says " definitely not '51!" and Craig says "and what I can see of his body all shout 1951.

Support for 1952 comes from a Type I print with a 1952 date stamp (which if I remember correctly was from October supporting Graig's contention)"

Graig: GREAT info on the patches extending into the WS in 51 and not 52. Dating with the ads will really help. Looking forward to it, but enjoy your vacation until then!

Craig:

You go on to say " one definitive way to date the photo would be some hard evidence as to when the 1951 Wheaties series was created - Feb, March, April of '51 or after September 1952?"

This is actually what I am trying to ascertain. IF the photo is from the 52 World Series then the Wheaties set can not be from 1951, but rather has to be later. Of course even if the photo is from 1951 does not mean the Wheaties set was issued in 1951 or even 1952 for that matter. It could have been issued any year later! This goes back to my argument of why Wheaties would include Mantle in a 1951 set. More on this an comparing other players in the set can be found in the postwar section discussion found here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175675

where one of the issues is, it is dated circa 1955 in the Getty archives!

I hope one of you EXPERTS will be able to come up with a definitive answer on when the photo was taken, and we will be able to answer at least if the set was issued in 1951 or not. Then the question is, is it a Wheaties issue and we start all over again!! :>)

Thanks again for all your help/research/thoughts!

Fred