T213 related to T206 revisited w/1942 checklist info added..now w/Old Judges too

[Leon]

Just searching some checklist threads and came across this one. Seems to be pretty good info on T213 so that's why I am bumping it.
In addition, I might have posted this before, but it's some pretty cool reading anyway, so here it is again. And lastly, to answer at least one of Teds (hi Ted) questions, I don't know if a T213-1 Coupon card has been found in a pack or not. Good question though. As for these pages in this old Bulletin manual, they date circa 1942. enjoy

[wonkaticket]

Good stuff Leon, never noticed as others have that the first checklist up top says that Type 1 coupons are on heavy paper. I have always found type ones to be on thinner more delicate paper, guess it depends on how one classifies “heavy” paper.

Thanks for showing I enjoyed looking these over. Neat stuff!

Cheers,

John

[the 'stache]

This is a really fascinating discussion. Thank you, Leon.

[RCMcKenzie]

Leon, thanks for bringing this back to the top, as I was not reading the board in 2011. Those are some priceless hobby archives you have there.


T213-1 Coupon cards are on very heavy paper. The paper stock is thin compared to other cardboard series, but it is "Heavy" or dense in that the colors on the front do not show through to the back. Light paper, like typing or notebook paper, is not sturdy enough for colors not to be seen from the other side of the paper.

And, I agree with Jim that T216 Virginia Extra are much more difficult to find than a Coupon card. The T216 are another interesting series, in that it seems that if grouped by the front of the card, then they should be classified with the matching candy or E cards.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

Just searching some checklist threads and came across this one. Seems to be pretty good info on T213 so that's why I am bumping it.
In addition, I might have posted this before, but it's some pretty cool reading anyway, so here it is again. And lastly, to answer at least one of Teds (hi Ted) questions, I don't know if a T213-1 Coupon card has been found in a pack or not. Good question though. As for these pages in this old Bulletin manual, they date circa 1942. enjoy

Hi Leon

Neat stuff.

I don't think I'll bet the farm....but, maybe one of my two barns....that we will never find a "COUPON" cigarette pack. So, finding
a T213-1 card in a pack is a moot point.

The 1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons containing 100's of cigarettes.



....... Spring/Summer 1910 .................................................. 1914 .............................................. 1919
. . . . . .

. .



TED Z

[RCMcKenzie]

This is the pack that Canfield shows on his site, but I have not seen any proof that these are the packs that contained t213.

www.ebay.com/itm/321206322803

[Leon]

Hi Ted
I got my information from Jon's site,

http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/t213.htm

Can you tell me where you got yours? I always want to learn something I don't know about this stuff.

[RCMcKenzie]

The ebay seller had 2 of these packs. He says they have 20 cigarettes in them. So, clearly T213-3 were not sold in the packs that this guy had. Has anyone ever opened one and found a T213-2? Canfield says T213-3 were included in these. Not slamming the guy, he has a wealth of information on his pack site, just asking.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi Ted
I got my information from Jon's site,

http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/t213.htm

Can you tell me where you got yours? I always want to learn something I don't know about this stuff.

Good morning Leon

First, I have seen a carton (measuring approx. 11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes. No cigarettes in this carton, but I think it is fair to assume it originally
contained 100's of "COUPON" cigarettes.

Some years ago, I asked Jon if he had seen (or was aware) of a 10-cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes. Jon said that no such pack has ever been seen.

The key here is the significance of the QUOTES on the brand name. It is my understanding that any new tobacco brand that ATC introduced into the market prior
to having a Registered Trademark, required the labelling of this brand with quotes. I've added the "PIRATE" cigarettes pack (and card) and the "Ty Cobb" Tobacco
card as further examples of the "quoted" brands.

Furthermore, consider this....as you very well know, two regular T-cards inserted in these packs also served as "stiffiners". There is no way that the 1910 COUPON
(soft card-board) cards served this purpose. And, the 1910 COUPON cards were never meant to be stiffiners, hence the softer cardboard stock.

So, until we find a standard 10-cigarette pack labelled "COUPON", you'll have to trust my take on this. I'm 99% certain we will NOT find such a pack. That's why I
am willing to bet one my barns



.


. .



Pardon my lengthy response.


TED Z

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Good morning Leon

First, I have seen a carton (measuring approx. 11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes. No cigarettes in this carton, but I think it is fair to assume it originally
contained 100's of "COUPON" cigarettes.

Some years ago, I asked Jon if he had seen (or was aware) of a 10-cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes. Jon said that no such pack has ever been seen.

The key here is the significance of the QUOTES on the brand name. It is my understanding that any new tobacco brand that ATC introduced into the market prior
to having a Registered Trademark, required the labelling of this brand with quotes. I've added the "PIRATE" cigarettes pack (and card) and the "Ty Cobb" Tobacco
card as further examples of the "quoted" brands.

Furthermore, consider this....as you very well know, two regular T-cards inserted in these packs also served as "stiffiners". There is no way that the 1910 COUPON
(soft card-board) cards served this purpose. And, the 1910 COUPON cards were never meant to be stiffiners, hence the softer cardboard stock.

So, until we find a standard 10-cigarette pack labelled "COUPON", you'll have to trust my take on this. I'm 99% certain we will NOT find such a pack. That's why I
am willing to bet one my barns

Pardon my lengthy response.


TED Z

Hi Ted
Here are some thoughts. I think your assumption that you have a carton that says 100s of Coupon cigarettes might mean they were in packs in the box but not necessarily? (unless it says differently). My carton says 200 cigarettes 20s.......There could have been 10 packs of twenty, I am not sure.

I still think the type 1s could have been inserted into packs. Even though cards were used as stiffeners for the packs they were also used as promotional items to sell the cigarettes. We have seen ads of other brands promoting the cards so we know that is true. Maybe Coupon made the type 1s on thin paper because that is what was available...they didn't stiffen the packs too well, so they changed later on? There is a lot we don't know about the packs of Coupons and until more evidence is discovered I think your hypothesis could be accurate...and could not be accurate.

[tedzan]

[QUOTE=Leon;1184587]Hi Ted
Here are some thoughts. I think your assumption that you have a carton that says 100s of Coupon cigarettes might mean they were in packs in the box but not necessarily? (unless it says differently). My carton says 200 cigarettes 20s.......There could have been 10 packs of twenty, I am not sure.

QUOTE]


Leon

I failed to mention that a newspaper advertisement exists that shows this "COUPON" Cigarettes carton loaded with 100's of individual cigarettes.
Perhaps someone on the forum will dig up that Adv. and post it here.


TED Z

[Leon]

This was a pretty good thread, imo.....and this 1942 (lower book shown) is one of the earliest checklist books in the hobby....if not THE earliest, if we don't count the regular Card Collectors Bulletins which predated this by a few years....Also, remember this is BEFORE the American Card Catalog (ACC) came out and different numbering was used....

I want to add a bit for our (N)172 collectors so here ya go.....(remember, this checklist is around 70 years old!!)