Adrian is selling his T206 MURR'Y

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

What tough guy act? If anything, you seem to be the one that is getting confrontational here. You did it last night with Eric, who is one of the nicest people on this forum.

The only thing I have done regarding Adrian here is to bring up what he did to get booted off the forum, nothing more. I fail to see how doing so makes me a "tough guy" whatsoever. I would think that telling somebody else to get lost would constitute being a "tough guy", however.



What threads have I started about him???

Here are the topics, I have started since March (I will bold the topics having to do with pre-war):

1.) Ok baseball fans, here's an interesting question. (started about an hour ago)
2.) Should we maintain a list of suspicious buyers and sellers? (this was an idea first brought up by Pete Ullman, and with all the talk recently about shill bidding, the deceptive practices of the t206museum.com owner, forgeries being sold, etc, I felt it at least warranted consideration.)
3.) Khris Davis: a hidden gem in Milwaukee, but not for long.
4. How many people on Ebay will be duped by these? (a discussion about a T206 reprint set).
5. Should I get this graded? 2009 Chrome Mike Trout au
6. A question for T206 experts. I'm confused by this Ebay auction
7. What is your most cherished piece, and why?
8. The all-time best of Net 54
9. The fantasy baseball Gods are not being kind this week. Check this out..
10. Graded card bags for larger slabs? (started as I needed suggestions for protecting the T202 card that had been given to me as a gift by Pete Sycks)
11. Looking for suggestions for my first pre-war card
12. Could I get some opinions on this T206 Ty Cobb bat on shoulder please?
13. Would a database for PSA flips be beneficial to the hobby?
14. Has anybody done this to guard against buying forgeries?
15. Is this 1953 Bowman Color Mantle legit?
16. Thanks a lot, guys. Now I'm in love with "the monster".
17. Something in the REA catalog has me puzzled
18. How do you maintain your purchase receipts?
19. Question from a vintage noob. What exactly is a monster?
20. Won't the graded card slabs melt below 350?
21. Do you save baseball shows/movies on your DVR?
22. Revisiting the SGC vs PSA vs Beckett discussion, where do the three stand in 2013?
23. PSA cards. Do you have a grading range that you typically look for?
24. Do these flips look right to you?
25. Recommendations for a magnifying glass

Seems to me that a person taking even a quick look at the list of topics I've started over the last six months would see somebody learning about pre-war cards, educating myself about looking out for fake pre-war cards, etc. The only topic I started that had anything to do with a card from the 70s was #24, where I was looking for a new graded 1975 Topps Robin Yount, whom I collect.

So no, I'm not a "troll". Talk about making an assumption, and being completely wrong.



Yes, I do collect pre-war cards, and vintage, and modern cards, too. Unfortunately, I shattered my femur at the end of June, spent a month in the hospital fighting sepsis, and since coming home at the end of July, I've been doing physical therapy, and paying off my share of the $200,000 medical bill I ran up. So I haven't been buying any cards at all. I have new bills coming in daily, and before I spend money on my hobby, I am taking care of my responsibilities. So, I am sorry if my volume of pre-war card purchases do not meet your satisfaction, but I have bills to pay.

I've registered with REA so I could bid on some pre-war cards. I've been pretty open about the pre-war cards I want (T206 portrait Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth '33 Goudey, Lou Gehrig '34 Goudey, Nap Lajoie T206 with bat, Christy Matthewson T206 Dark Cap, Ty Cobb T206 bat on shoulder, T202 "Cobb Steals Third", T206 Willie Keeler portrait, I could go on...). I've been learning about pre-war cards, and if you've been paying attention to any of the posts I've made not related to Zone, you'd see that pretty much everything I've done since joining this forum has to do with my desire to build a really nice collection of players from the early days of the game. That doesn't mean I won't buy cards from the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, because I will. I love Clemente, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Sandy Koufax, Stan Musial, Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Warren Spahn, etc, and I want to dabble in all sorts of different sets. I love the T206 set. I love the 1915 Cracker jack set. The 1953 Bowman Color set might be my favorite of all-time. I love the '58 Topps set, the '71 Topps set. I'm a big fan of the T202 set. I really like the T205 set. So, again, you are making a statement about me with zero knowledge of what I do. You've seen me making a few posts about Zone91, and made the quantum leap in logic to "well, you're a 70s card collecting internet-tough guy-troll that is trying to blacklist people". Jesus, if you knew anything about me (which clearly you do not), you'd laugh how completely ridiculous that is.

In fact, I think I ended my last post about Adrian asking forum members to let this topic go, as he was no longer a forum member, and couldn't defend himself.

And funny thing, in the last six months, I don't see a single thread I started about Zone91, though you are certain that I have. Another fabrication.



Actually, if you go back and read some of my posts (the ones I make lying in bed with my casted/iced leg sticking up in the air...you know, when I'm not being a "tough guy"), you'd see a lot of the posts I make are about pre-war cards. As soon as the first few of the T206 cards I bought came in, I couldn't scan them quickly enough to get them in the virtual T206 collection thread. You'll see the three of my additions late in the discussion.

I talk about storing my baseball cards, using a lock box at the bank, or a safe at home. I talk about '33 Goudey cards. I talk with Ian about t202 cards. I try to welcome new members when I see them, or answer questions to help people out. Talking about Adrian makes up 0.005% of what I do on this forum, yet it's all you can see. Maybe you should open your eyes?



Again, you have no idea what I "am", so until you educate yourself, I'd appreciate it if you stopped making assumptions about who I am, what I like, or what I stand for. Because you are way off base.



Now I have a vendetta? LOL. You're something else. I didn't start this topic. Before this, I've made 5 of the 147 posts in the discussion. And all I've done is remind people of what he did. When the "aw, Adrian isn't such a bad guy" meme comes out, I remind everybody of why he was booted. And I've had multiple people message me expressing their shock over just how bad he was.

Jamie, if you want to talk baseball, or about baseball cards, I would love to do so. That's why I came here. I don't have any vendetta against this guy. I have nothing against you. And again, I would appreciate it if we could just leave him in the past. There's far too many good things to talk about, and I hate wasting my time on negativity.

He has harped on and on about Adrian and posted endless links to old threads written by him. He said Adrian committed criminal acts when he hadn't. He claims he wrote the thread on making a blacklist simply because it "warranted conversation", when in fact he was heavily pumping the idea and offered to manage the blacklist himself, presumably so that he could gain control over it and the power associated with who would or wouldn't be on it (hint-Adrian). He wrote that the board should let the matter go, but only after, in the very same post, accusing Adrian of stealing from people in the future, even though Adrian has no history of stealing from anyone in the past and in fact just shipped out a card he sold. He also posted links to the very same Adrian threads that got everyone so upset in the first place. Those links and accusations are obviously so inflammatory that it isn't going to encourage anyone to let the matter go. Yet he claims he doesn't have a vendetta.

He can make some rhetorical argument about how he hasn't "started any threads", but it is a moot point. He is responsible for what he has written and that is that. By his own standards, less than one third of the threads he started were about pre-war cards, and the ones that were generally covered topics that lack vigor, such as "Which Pre-war card should I buy?". He claims that I started bullying Eric P. around in the blacklist thread, but that assertion is false. Eric threw the first flame by saying I should hang out with other people although I was just making a philosophical argument about the truth that wasn't directed at Eric. Although Eric continued with many personal attacks, calling me a moron and so forth, I never responded in kind and in fact all I did was question the highly dubious accuracy of some of his Eric's statements.

As for whether Bill has a vendetta against Adrian, you folks can go back and read his posts and make your own assessment. He claims he wants to leave Adrian in the past when in fact he continues to bash him in ways unwarranted. Unfair to someone who doesn't have a voice on this board. Moreover, he is now employing the Adrian-inspired technique of trying to shift the focus to his health problems. Even people with injured knees still need to be responsible for what they write. But, ultimately, whether he's started threads or whether he's got a vendetta is irrelevant - he's made the inflammatory remarks against Adrian and it is as simple as that. That is not the mark of someone who wants to leave the matter behind - that is the mark of someone who wants to stir up old stuff.

Hmm... starting stupid threads and using health issues to pass off on inflammatory comments. Doesn't that sound a bit like the Zone91 character?

[CMIZ5290]

Hope you guys don't mind, I'm going to start a new thread....."Adrian is laughing his ass off"

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

He has harped on and on about Adrian and posted endless links to old threads written by him. He said Adrian committed criminal acts when he hadn't. He claims he wrote the thread on making a blacklist simply because it "warranted conversation", when in fact he was heavily pumping the idea and offered to manage the blacklist himself, presumably so that he could gain control over it and the power associated with who would or wouldn't be on it (hint-Adrian). He wrote that the board should let the matter go, but only after, in the very same post, accusing Adrian of stealing from people in the future, even though Adrian has no history of stealing from anyone in the past and in fact just shipped out a card he sold. He also posted links to the very same Adrian threads that got everyone so upset in the first place. Those links and accusations are obviously so inflammatory that it isn't going to encourage anyone to let the matter go. Yet he claims he doesn't have a vendetta.

He can make some rhetorical argument about how he hasn't "started any threads", but it is a moot point. He is responsible for what he has written and that is that. By his own standards, less than one third of the threads he started were about pre-war cards, and the ones that were generally covered topics that lack vigor, such as "Which Pre-war card should I buy?". He claims that I started bullying Eric P. around in the blacklist thread, but that assertion is false. Eric threw the first flame by saying I should hang out with other people although I was just making a philosophical argument about the truth that wasn't directed at Eric. Although Eric continued with many personal attacks, calling me a moron and so forth, I never responded in kind and in fact all I did was question the highly dubious accuracy of some of his Eric's statements.

As for whether Bill has a vendetta against Adrian, you folks can go back and read his posts and make your own assessment. He claims he wants to leave Adrian in the past when in fact he continues to bash him in ways unwarranted. Unfair to someone who doesn't have a voice on this board. Moreover, he is now employing the Adrian-inspired technique of trying to shift the focus to his health problems. Even people with injured knees still need to be responsible for what they write. But, ultimately, whether he's started threads or whether he's got a vendetta is irrelevant - he's made the inflammatory remarks against Adrian and it is as simple as that. That is not the mark of someone who wants to leave the matter behind - that is the mark of someone who wants to stir up old stuff.

Hmm... starting stupid threads and using health issues to pass off on inflammatory comments. Doesn't that sound a bit like the Zone91 character?

You're a real piece of work, I give you that. Why you are so intent on defending a guy that has welshed on his obligations left and right is beyond me, and frankly it's a little disturbing. Yet you have no problem attacking somebody who is only acting in the best interest of everybody on the forum. Real nice.

I offered to host the list only so Net 54 wouldn't be exposed to any liability. That is the only reason. I would have given admin access to Leon and the mods. Some other people (people that aren't paranoid) might think, "that's cool. He's trying to help other board members by providing a list of Ebay buyers and sellers that are scamming people, or backing out on obligations they have voluntarily entered into". But not you. "Oooooh, Bill Gregory is making a power play." Really? Well, don't worry. The list isn't going to happen as the majority voted against it. I could care less would have been on it. People could have chosen to look at it if they wanted to, or they could have ignored it altogether. As I have already shown, other forums do it. SCF has a list of hundreds of people on their homepage. I suppose the mods use that as a "power trip", too, right? Or maybe they're just trying to protect their members.

And where have I used my health issues to pass off inflammatory comments? The only reason I posted anything about my leg being broken and subsequent surgery was your absurd assertion that I am not a pre-war collector because you don't see me buying cards, or in your mind, I'm not buying enough. Adrian used his health (and several other things) as justification for his abhorrent behavior. I'm not using my health as an excuse for anything. I pay my bills. I meet my obligations.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

You're a real piece of work, I give you that. Why you are so intent on defending a guy that has welshed on his obligations left and right is beyond me, and frankly it's a little disturbing. Yet you have no problem attacking somebody who is only acting in the best interest of everybody on the forum. Real nice.

I'm not defending him from welshing on his obligations, as you would have it. I'm defending him from your own false allegations. You only think you're acting in the best interests of the forum. But it's not in the best interests of forum. That's why your ideas were rejected.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I offered to host the list only so Net 54 wouldn't be exposed to any liability. That is the only reason. I would have given admin access to Leon and the mods. Some other people (people that aren't paranoid) might think, "that's cool. He's trying to help other board members by providing a list of Ebay buyers and sellers that are scamming people, or backing out on obligations they have voluntarily entered into". But not you. "Oooooh, Bill Gregory is making a power play." Really? Well, don't worry. The list isn't going to happen as the majority voted against it. I could care less would have been on it. People could have chosen to look at it if they wanted to, or they could have ignored it altogether. As I have already shown, other forums do it. SCF has a list of hundreds of people on their homepage. I suppose the mods use that as a "power trip", too, right? Or maybe they're just trying to protect their members.

Well, obviously the SCF list hasn't done a damned thing to stop corruption in the hobby. Nothing could be more clear than that. No one can know your true motivations except you. But I do know that you've made false allegations against Adrian and that you offered to be in control of a list that would have Adrian on it.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

And where have I used my health issues to pass off inflammatory comments? The only reason I posted anything about my leg being broken and subsequent surgery was your absurd assertion that I am not a pre-war collector because you don't see me buying cards, or in your mind, I'm not buying enough. Adrian used his health (and several other things) as justification for his abhorrent behavior. I'm not using my health as an excuse for anything. I pay my bills. I meet my obligations.

Someone can own a lot or a little amount of cards and still be a troll. Bruce Dorskind was a troll and he had a phenomenal collection. But it's possible for someone who is a troll to buy a few cards in order to claim they are a collector. I do know that you tend to write inflammatory posts, as I've outlined earlier, and that a lot of the threads you've created have been off-topic. Those are two primary characteristics of a troll. My view is that you used the talk of your knee and the associated photos to gain sympathy for yourself and distract from the matter at hand.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I'm not defending him from welshing on his obligations, as you would have it. I'm defending him from your own false allegations. You only think you're acting in the best interests of the forum. But it's not in the best interests of forum. That's why your ideas were rejected.

And that's fine. I brought up somebody else's idea to see what other forum members felt, and it is clear they didn't think it was needed. I made my case why I thought it could be helpful, and others did the same thing. A bunch of adults made a bunch of good points, and in the end it was determined it wouldn't be needed. You were the one that took the whole thing a step further when you accused me of being on some power trip. It never entered my mind that somebody could even take what I was doing, and twist it so.

And what false allegations? I misspoke when I said what he did was criminal, and I said as much. You pointed out correctly that his actions were not criminal in the truest sense of the word, that if anything he would be liable in civil court. I agreed with you, and clarified what I meant by saying he was "criminal". What he's done is reprehensible, and I'm hardly the only person that feels that way. And still, you keep bring up these "false accusations". There's nothing false about them. In essence, he did steal from people. It's well documented, and indisputable. He promised to give these sellers money in exchange for goods (the baseball cards he bought), then he went back on his word. That's not the same as going into somebody's house and just taking what you want, which would be larceny, but it's still a pretty crappy thing to do, and something that he should be held accountable for.

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Well, obviously the SCF list hasn't done a damned thing to stop corruption in the hobby. Nothing could be more clear than that.

Actually, it has cut down on the number of thefts that have gone on at the sports card forums like SCF and Blowout Cards. The lists are specific to the forums, not Ebay, or Comc, or auction house sales. What I'd proposed, based on Pete's idea, was to create a list that would be all encompassing. The proposal was made, and deemed unnecessary. Again, I'm completely fine with it.

Originally Posted by cyseymour

No one can know your true motivations except you.

You're absolutely right. But it didn't stop you from accusing me of being on some childish power play, did it? Or what was it, being a "vigilante".

Originally Posted by cyseymour

But I do know that you've made false allegations against Adrian and that you offered to be in control of a list that would have Adrian on it.

Now who's making false allegations? Where did I ever say I would be in control of the list, or that Adrian would be on it? I said quite clearly that I would not be the one making those decisions. Leon, another site admin, or a moderator would make that determination. I would simply maintain the list on my website, nothing more. As they would give me a name to add, I would update it. And forum members could choose to utilize the list, or not. Nobody was being forced to make use of it.

Would Adrian be on the list? Quite possibly. Again, not my decision. Has he been kicked off this forum? Were his BST privileges taken away before being booted? Yes. Have multiple people come forward and stated that Adrian reneged on deals he made? Yes. So, would be be on that list, if it existed? What do you think?

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I do know that you tend to write inflammatory posts, as I've outlined earlier

And you don't? So far, you're only the second person I've had words with since I came here. And you also got into it with Eric yesterday, who I've never seen get confrontational with anybody else. Now, I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong. But is it mere coincidence that you've gotten into heated exchanges with two people in the last two days here? Maybe you're just a little part of the problem, too?

Originally Posted by cyseymour

and that a lot of the threads you've created have been off-topic. Those are two primary characteristics of a troll.

Ok, here's the topic list again, copied and pasted. Let's see where all these off topic threads I'm starting are:

1.) Ok baseball fans, here's an interesting question. (started about an hour ago) A thread about baseball. Maybe off topic, but not really, as I tied in finding a store with old baseball cards. But I'll give you the benefit here.
2.) Should we maintain a list of suspicious buyers and sellers? (this was an idea first brought up by Pete Ullman, and with all the talk recently about shill bidding, the deceptive practices of the t206museum.com owner, forgeries being sold, etc, I felt it at least warranted consideration.) Not off topic, as the discussion was created about what could be done to improve the safety of the hobby
3.) Khris Davis: a hidden gem in Milwaukee, but not for long.Not off topic, was done on the post 1980s baseball cards thread
4. How many people on Ebay will be duped by these? (a discussion about a T206 reprint set).Not off topic, talking about T206 reprint set
5. Should I get this graded? 2009 Chrome Mike Trout auNot off topic, posted on the modern baseball card forum
6. A question for T206 experts. I'm confused by this Ebay auctionClearly not off topic
7. What is your most cherished piece, and why?Not off topic at all.
8. The all-time best of Net 54Slightly off topic as it could include a thread from any part of the forum.
9. The fantasy baseball Gods are not being kind this week. Check this out..Clearly not off topic, posted on the watercooler talk board.
10. Graded card bags for larger slabs? (started as I needed suggestions for protecting the T202 card that had been given to me as a gift by Pete Sycks)Clearly not off topic, as I was looking for help protecting and storing a pre war card
11. Looking for suggestions for my first pre-war cardClearly not off topic
12. Could I get some opinions on this T206 Ty Cobb bat on shoulder please?
13. Would a database for PSA flips be beneficial to the hobby?Clearly not off topic
14. Has anybody done this to guard against buying forgeries?Clearly not off topic
15. Is this 1953 Bowman Color Mantle legit? Not off topic, on the pre 1980 board
16. Thanks a lot, guys. Now I'm in love with "the monster".Clearly not off topic, talking about the T206 set
17. Something in the REA catalog has me puzzled.Clearly not off topic, asking about slabbed pre war cards.
18. How do you maintain your purchase receipts?Could be considered off topic
19. Question from a vintage noob. What exactly is a monster? Not off topic, talking about T206 set.
20. Won't the graded card slabs melt below 350?Not off topic, on the postwar board
21. Do you save baseball shows/movies on your DVR?Off topic, but still talking about baseball
22. Revisiting the SGC vs PSA vs Beckett discussion, where do the three stand in 2013? On the postwar board, so not off topic
23. PSA cards. Do you have a grading range that you typically look for?post war board
24. Do these flips look right to you?post war board
25. Recommendations for a magnifying glasspost war board

So, where are all these off topic threads I'm making, hmm? Please enlighten me. Two, maybe three off topics in the last six months, and those were related to baseball, and indirectly related to the pre-war hobby. Sounds like once again you have no clue what you're talking about, just like last night when you thought Adrian was buying cards, paying for them, and returning them for a refund. No.

Originally Posted by cyseymour

My view is that you used the talk of your knee and the associated photos to gain sympathy for yourself and distract from the matter at hand.

Your view is wrong. Asked and already answered. I said quite clearly, and anybody who is able to comprehend English written out on a computer screen should be able to grasp what I am saying...the only reason that information was posted was the reason why I am not buying more cards right now. Understood? I don't need sympathy from a bunch of people online, nor am I seeking it.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

And what false allegations? In essence, he did steal from people. It's well documented, and indisputable.

Defintion "Steal": To take the property of another without right or permission.

No, Adrian never stole from anybody. In essence, or otherwise. It is a false allegation.

People can make their own judgments about the rest. I've written what I've had to say and that's it. Goodbye.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I'm not defending him from welshing on his obligations, as you would have it. I'm defending him from your own false allegations. You only think you're acting in the best interests of the forum. But it's not in the best interests of forum. That's why your ideas were rejected.



Well, obviously the SCF list hasn't done a damned thing to stop corruption in the hobby. Nothing could be more clear than that. No one can know your true motivations except you. But I do know that you've made false allegations against Adrian and that you offered to be in control of a list that would have Adrian on it.



Someone can own a lot or a little amount of cards and still be a troll. Bruce Dorskind was a troll and he had a phenomenal collection. But it's possible for someone who is a troll to buy a few cards in order to claim they are a collector. I do know that you tend to write inflammatory posts, as I've outlined earlier, and that a lot of the threads you've created have been off-topic. Those are two primary characteristics of a troll. My view is that you used the talk of your knee and the associated photos to gain sympathy for yourself and distract from the matter at hand.

Fwiw, I've had the same thoughts about thestache ever since the Adrian saga ended. He went back and quoted the posts that Adrian directed against him, but failed to mention that he had essentially "started it" by jumping into a thread that didn't concern him to tell Adrian that Adrian's problems were nothing compared to his own. If troll isn't the correct term, attention whore sure is.