Should we maintain a list of suspicious buyers and sellers?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

As far as Zone91 goes, I think that he mostly paid but then wound up returning a lot of the cards. That's not going to win any awards, but it's different than being a non-payer.

As far as your maintaining the list, it's more than someone shooting off a pissy email. You'd have to make judgment calls about who is and isn't a good ebayer. That is going off the grid, man, that really is being a vigilante and creating your own set of rules. If you think checking bidder feedback is hassle, try setting up a blacklist and see what a hassle that is!

No, Adrian simply did not pay for these items. It was not a matter of him returning the cards and getting refunds. He made a commitment to buy the items, then reneged. He said he did not have the money to pay for them, and he did it more than once. In one instance, he bought a $500 card, and backed out on the transaction. Then he bought $200 worth of cards the next day.

I don't want to go into the whole Zone thing again, as it's been beaten to death, but before you comment on what he did and did not do, you really should know what really went down:

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=169148

And I'm hardly some vigilante. A vigilante is somebody that doles out retribution to somebody they feel has slipped through the legal system. I'm simply trying to provide a list of people that voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract, and are backing out of their commitment. I am trying to protect you, myself, and the good and honest members of this forum that are tired of the crooked behavior that is running rampant throughout our hobby. And as I've said at least two or three times now, nobody would be put on to the list unless there was clear, incontrovertible facts to establish their culpability.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I am trying to protect you, myself, and the good and honest members of this forum that are tired of the crooked behavior that is running rampant throughout our hobby.

I would guess that I've made ~1000 transactions (buying and selling) in the past five years since I have returned to the hobby. That total includes this forum, eBay, auction houses, and multiple other card and coin forums. In that time I have had a grand total of 0 issues. Knock on wood. Sure I've had a couple of NPB's, but in the end I'm really out nothing but time. How have I accomplished this?

- I've been lucky.
- I use common sense.
- I study high dollar items before I make a purchase.
- I pay immediately.
- I ship securely within two business days of payment with tracking.
- I make sure the buyer is receiving exactly what he/she is expecting.
- I only pay gift to trusted members of the community.
- I am patient.
- I never "take a chance".
- I use common sense.

I do not believe this site needs a running blacklist because it is in all probability one of the safest collecting communities online. The vast majority of message board scammers are under 18, deal in shiny cards, or both and that pretty much leaves this little oasis on the fringe. I'm sure some will sneak through the cracks here, but as long as you protect yourself in unsure situations the most you should have to face is a hassle and not a loss. Not to mention the liability Leon would be putting himself up against. I have seen many names called out on this forum before and some of them have deep pockets, huge egos, and a retainer already paid in full. The responsibility should be on individual raising the issue, not the forum in which the issue is raised.

If eBay is the market the scares you then just check the CU forums daily. They offer up a half-dozen names for the BBL list everyday. It is like a sport over there.

If you are afraid that you are getting shilled follow this advice someone once gave me: "Never bid more than you are willing to pay." If I put a $500 bid in on an item and win it for $498 I don't look to see if I might have been shilled up. I look and see when/who I have to pay. Until eBay reverses there "hidden bidder" policy it will continue and even if high volume consignment brokers like Probstein took it upon themselves to police the thousands of auctions that they run someone who wants to shill their auction will find an alternate/friend's/new account to do so on.

I'm not trying to insinuate that this thread was a bad idea or that you are wrong for bringing up the issue, I just feel that being smart protects you in 99.9% of transactions and paypal protects you in the other .01%. (If you're the buyer. )