This is the problem with grading...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by honus94566

No way that I am going to believe simply that "Someone got the card regraded". This is total BS and you wont convince me that there wasn't a "payoff" in there somewhere...............

You mean PSA employees are not honest?? OMG I never knew.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I just saw this on the CU Board. There was a 1968 Topps Ryan rookie that was recently graded PSA 10 (the first and only) and according to Joe Orlando the card sold privately for $400,000.

Reading through the thread, one poster (Last post on Page 2) made this statement, which I have no reason to doubt since it would seem highly unlikely that the allegedly finest example just recently turned up:

I was at the Cow Palace show and at the PSA booth this guy said he has sent in his card 20 times and finally got the grade he wanted.

So there you go.


If this is true, then the submitter netted an easy $375,000 on this bump-up and a collector paid that extra $375,000 for a card that 19 out of 20 times was graded PSA 9 (or maybe less several times).

What insanity!

Here's the thread:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...05&STARTPAGE=1

[barrysloate]

Dan- do the graders know if a card they are examining is being submitted for the twentieth time? Would that kind of pressure them into finally giving it that hoped for bump, especially if it is a good customer?

I won't even go into why there is someone out there who feels it's a 400K card. That's for another time.

[bobbyw8469]

What insanity! I don't know if that is good for the hobby, or bad for the hobby. I am torn.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- do the graders know if a card they are examining is being submitted for the twentieth time? Would that kind of pressure them into finally giving it that hoped for bump, especially if it is a good customer?

I won't even go into why there is someone out there who feels it's a 400K card. That's for another time.

Barry,

It's my understanding that as a "PSA policy" a PSA grader is not supposed to know who the submitter is.

But you bring up another good point. PSA made a lot of money on this same card and probably other cards from the same submitter since cracking out and bumping up has become a business in itself for a number of dealers and I don't know of any public discouragement by PSA to instruct submitters from playing the "crack-out" game.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- do the graders know if a card they are examining is being submitted for the twentieth time? Would that kind of pressure them into finally giving it that hoped for bump, especially if it is a good customer?

I don't know about pressure, but what about incentive? A dirty grader (and I believe there are some) might be tempted to bump a card if he knew the submitter and there was something in it for him - say like 5% ($19K) or 10% ($38K) of the profit?

[Leon]

If I were the authorities and had any inkling of wrongdoing, or was investigating the hobby, I would probably have a conversation with the grader that bumped the card, the submitter and the graders manager. It wouldn't hurt to to see what they would say...

And if it's true that the card went from a 9 to a 10 after that many bumps, then I really don't know what to say about the people playing the "10" game. I wouldn't want to be the last one holding that potato though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I give the owner credit for persistence.

[barrysloate]

Dan- I realize submissions are supposed to be anonymous. But take a high profile card like that, and assume the same grader has seen it at least a few times over that period, and it's really not all that anonymous anymore. When you are working at a company full time, you get to know alot about what is going on, and most would certainly recognize that card. I mean, we're talking about the same card in the grading room twenty times!

David- I've always been concerned with graders accepting money under the table. That's why it's so difficult to take any of these grades seriously. Of course, I have no idea what may actually go on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't know about pressure, but what about incentive? A dirty grader (and I believe there are some) might be tempted to bump a card if he knew the submitter and there was something in it for him - say like 5% ($19K) or 10% ($38K) of the profit?

That is inherent in third party grading.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I just saw this on the CU Board. There was a 1968 Topps Ryan rookie that was recently graded PSA 10 (the first and only) and according to Joe Orlando the card sold privately for $400,000.

Reading through the thread, one poster (Last post on Page 2) made this statement, which I have no reason to doubt since it would seem highly unlikely that the allegedly finest example just recently turned up:

I was at the Cow Palace show and at the PSA booth this guy said he has sent in his card 20 times and finally got the grade he wanted.

So there you go.


If this is true, then the submitter netted as easy $375,000 on this bump-up and a collector paid that extra $375,000 for a card that 19 out of 20 times was graded PSA 9 (or maybe less several times).

What insanity!

Here's the thread:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...05&STARTPAGE=1

If this is true (I don't necessarily doubt it but it's slim evidence) I'm impressed that a card that has been cracked out of a holder and mailed back and forth so many times is still anywhere near a 10.