Can corruption kill this beloved hobby?

[ullmandds]

Rob..."we" buy cards for various reasons...grade...scarcity...whatever the reason it doesn't really matter. I personally don't buy cards for the grade...ever. In this case...I am going for a run of Dots Miller big glove cards with as many different backs as possible. Before these T216 blank backs were offered by goodwin...noone seemed to know that t216 blank backs existed.

So in this case this card is rare. I wanted this card no matter the condition. Does this make it acceptable...even though the card is graded A...is obviously hand cut...and not well...to provide a scan that doesn't accurately depict the true condition of the card? I don't believe so?!

We all know that all Authentic cards are not created equal...just as all grades are not...barring nmt-mt cards...which I could not care less about!!!!

Had this been a 33 goudey ruth card...of which there are tons...and I received it only to see numerous creases not evident on the scans provided...I'd be pissed...and I'd seek retribution.

As usual with me...it's about the principles of the matter...

[Peter_Spaeth]

So Pete, what are you going to do about it? Complain to Bill? Refuse to bid in his future auctions? Ask more questions next time?

[Exhibitman]

"Kill" things? No. What can happen if fraud runs (more) rampant is that the unschooled money investors and casual collectors will drop out. What will be killed is the market for cards. We could see a shift back to the pre-boom days of $20 T206 HOFers and so forth. Not sure that will ever happen but some form of devaluation very well could.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"Kill" things? No. What can happen if fraud runs (more) rampant is that the unschooled money investors and casual collectors will drop out. What will be killed is the market for cards. We could see a shift back to the pre-boom days of $20 T206 HOFers and so forth. Not sure that will ever happen but some form of devaluation very well could.

Bring it on. I would happily take a hit in the value of my collection if it means the prices of all the stuff I still want go down. This rare back bubble we're in is absurd.

[robw]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Rob..."we" buy cards for various reasons...grade...scarcity...whatever the reason it doesn't really matter. I personally don't buy cards for the grade...ever. In this case...I am going for a run of Dots Miller big glove cards with as many different backs as possible. Before these T216 blank backs were offered by goodwin...noone seemed to know that t216 blank backs existed.

So in this case this card is rare. I wanted this card no matter the condition. Does this make it acceptable...even though the card is graded A...is obviously hand cut...and not well...to provide a scan that doesn't accurately depict the true condition of the card? I don't believe so?!

We all know that all Authentic cards are not created equal...just as all grades are not...barring nmt-mt cards...which I could not care less about!!!!

Had this been a 33 goudey ruth card...of which there are tons...and I received it only to see numerous creases not evident on the scans provided...I'd be pissed...and I'd seek retribution.

As usual with me...it's about the principles of the matter...

All valid points, Pete, and please understand, my post is not to ruffle feathers, more for informational purposes. Just seems to be a very fine line between what should be deemed as fraudulent activity. One can only wonder what an AH does deliberately or not. Unfortunately, when buying, my mind set is almost that of "trust no one" which is why I am really only sticking to graded items-that leaves a lot of guessing out of the equation.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by robw

I am really only sticking to graded items-that leaves a lot of guessing out of the equation.

Really? I have been burned far worse by graded cards that never should have made it into slabs than I have by raw cards, and that's a fact.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by conor912

Really? I have been burned far worse by graded cards that never should have made it into slabs than I have by raw cards, and that's a fact.

Ditto - nothing like busting open a psa4 to find a bunch of surface scratches that the case hid...I trust my own eye more than any TPG any day.

[drcy]

I don't like the money-centric part of the hobby, with PSA and news outlets announcing "new price records" and all that shallowness. However, many of the buyers are genuine collectors, so that's not that big of a deal. As long as the items themselves are left alone and still exist, I can live with it.

I'm not even saying things are too expensive. I just think that judging things like baseball cards and movies by their financial level is shallow, and what shallow people do. A baseball card sale will appear as a story on CNN or ESPN, but only if it sells for a lot of money. Which just says CNN and ESPN are shallow. And, of course, CNN's coverage of movies is largely based on box office receipts. As I say, you can't judge the quality of a movie by the box office receipts, in part because people buy the ticket before they watch the movie.

That wasn't a political statement. You can switch FoxNews for CNN if you wish.

Any real collector knows a wonderful item can be worth only $1 on the open market and that doesn't take away from its wonderfulness. Just as no one here, other than studio stock holders, requires box office records to pick their top 10 favorite movies.

You know, I'd call 2001: A Space Odyssey an artistic masterpiece, and I have no idea where it ranked in the 1968 box office list. Learning that Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo or the McGwire 70 Home Run ball turned a better profit won't alter my opinion. That doesn't mean I won't find 2001's box office ranking uninteresting. I like facts and figures just like the the next guy. I'm a baseball fan after all.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Ditto - nothing like busting open a psa4 to find a bunch of surface scratches that the case hid...I trust my own eye more than any TPG any day.

what the graded slabs do is lull the customer to sleep and they dont have to take a good hard look at the card, they just trust the tpa. and if the tpa is slabbed altered/trimmed cards, then why again is the tpa better at detecting these alterations over the concerned collector?

[robw]

Originally Posted by conor912

Really? I have been burned far worse by graded cards that never should have made it into slabs than I have by raw cards, and that's a fact.

I really only look at PSA and SGC online...can't speak for the other TPG's. And online, it seems if it's not graded, there is a pretty darn good reason for it. Above all, yes, I trust my eyes as well, but overall, if they can't see it under their scrutiny, with the exception of a clear error, in all honesty, I'll take their word for it a lot more often than not. It's only human to be biased towards "your" cards, especially when selling, and again I'm not such a conspiracy theorist that they are in bed with a handful of dealers.