Can corruption kill this beloved hobby?

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by toppcat

It's not just the hobby, it's everywhere.

+1

At least the hobby is no where near as corrupt as D.C. is.

Sincerely, Clayton

[frankbmd]

In front of a card shop near me

[autograf]

As we've seen countless times, "STUFF TRUMPS ETHICS"......countless times auction houses have been caught trimming, enhancing, spooning, ironing, touting, shilling, etc and we (most of us) continue to bid with them. SO.....who's the problem? Them? or US? As long as we keep buying the stuff.....the hobby goes on. Some of those who rail the loudest are adding new stuff to their collection every day.........

[ullmandds]

The thing that "rubs" me is that I'd have paid double what that t216 blank back miller ended up selling for...as I believed it was the only one. Many of us have similar lunatic tendencies regarding our collections...so it isn't necessary for the AH's to be deceptive? Just b F...k'in honest...we'll still pay?!?!?!?!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

The thing that "rubs" me is that I'd have paid double what that t216 blank back miller ended up selling for...as I believed it was the only one. Many of us have similar lunatic tendencies regarding our collections...so it isn't necessary for the AH's to be deceptive? Just b F...k'in honest...we'll still pay?!?!?!?!

Pete- Are you positive the AH knew there was another and then said that the one they sold was the only one known? The consignor sold some of them privately too. And I am not sure the AH knew about some of the rest they didn't get to sell.

[ullmandds]

Leon...I'm more concerned with the absent creases/wrinkles on Goodwins' scans...the fact that another miller bb turned up doesn't bother me so much...esp since I now own it!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Leon...I'm more concerned with the absent creases/wrinkles on Goodwins' scans...the fact that another miller bb turned up doesn't bother me so much...esp since I now own it!

Well, I agree that disappearing creases are a concern. Fortunately on this particular card it's not really a huge deal since the cut is so scrappy looking anyway. But I totally agree about scans in our industry not looking like the cards they portray. That is never cool in my book. I know in our auction we try our best to make the scans be identical to the way the cards really look (in hand). That is the way they should be. I really don't understand this whole issue. I put a card on a scanner. I don't mess with the settings, it scans, I upload it...and viola. The card looks the same in the scan as in hand. It's not rocket science.

[robw]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Leon...I'm more concerned with the absent creases/wrinkles on Goodwins' scans...the fact that another miller bb turned up doesn't bother me so much...esp since I now own it!

Pete, out of curiosity, aren't we typically buying for the grade and scarcity of the card? I see in this instance it was graded "A", but would you have really bid any less because of a crease? I mean, the card was seemingly cut with scissors. Do you think the AH was trying to be deceptive in the matter, like saying "no creases" and then this is what you got. In a perfect world, we could touch the card before bidding online, but I don't know how much they were going out of there way to hide the creases in this case.

Rob

[travrosty]

It will never change because many people don't want things to change, they want the status quo because they make money. Like a bookie in vegas, they don't care who you bet on, they make money either way.

TPA's just the start. If people don't like TPA's and their hypocrisy, what are they doing about it? Most are doing nothing. A few are and I applaud them. Are people writing articles, do you ever see any hard hitting pieces investigating the fraud in the traditional outlets like SCB or Beckert? no you don't. Why is that?

Whoever gets caught is always going to be somebody's buddy, that's the problem. So any website exposing the fraudulent activity in the hobby is going to be panned by the network of friends. That's the way it is. Everyone wants fraud gone in the hobby as long as the person being caught is not a friend of theirs or they don't lose money on it.

Any auction house scanning items that don't look the same as the item you receive in hand is going to get even less scrutiny. No one wants to be on the outs of an auction house. Once someone gets caught and has to close up shop, then the chorus begins because their is no risk anymore. Now that I told the truth please let me have it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by autograf

As we've seen countless times, "STUFF TRUMPS ETHICS"......countless times auction houses have been caught trimming, enhancing, spooning, ironing, touting, shilling, etc and we (most of us) continue to bid with them. SO.....who's the problem? Them? or US? As long as we keep buying the stuff.....the hobby goes on. Some of those who rail the loudest are adding new stuff to their collection every day.........

Well said. And I would add that we (myself included) continue to buy cards although there is a reasonable chance they have been tampered with in some way.

[robw]

Having taken a near 20 year break from the hobby/industry, and now back for the past year, here's my 2 cents.

1) Corruption will not kill this, our culture will/does. Cards are not looked at like they were in the 50's, 60's and prior. Baseball was life back then, and cards a way to live vicariously through said life. It wasn't about condition, but about completing sets, getting your favorite player/team. That is long gone...now it's about winning the lottery with chase cards. Not to mention, there are many, many more hobbies and interests to partake in today than in prior times.

2) Once something is labeled as "collectible," it typically isn't-that's the new card market today

3) TPG's are a must, in my opinion. I am less a conspiracy theorist than most and do think they are as unbiased as it is going to get. I got out of the business originally just as the idea of TPG's were just starting to be mentioned. Now, I probably won't buy a card online that hasn't gone through a TPG. I know too many people that have been burned by ungraded singles hoping to grade them, only to find they have been altered. Fortunately for some, unfortunately for most newcomers, it's going to cost an arm and a leg to start buying high-graded older cards...that price barrier knocks many people out of the "industry."

4) People in the industry-even the most legitimate dealers share the blame in my opinion. Ever look how many auctions are on eBay? My searches show about 10% of all listings. Everything else is "Buy It Now." Even some of the auction prices start ABOVE book value. I've been to larger trade shows recently, as well. There's no excitement. Cards I thought were rare 20 years ago are stacked in graded cases as high as the ceiling-and its just the same show, time after time. The dealers don't even move around-same table arrangement, etc.

It's just like golf, though-it only takes a single great shot to keep you coming back....i'll keep searching for my diamonds in the rough.

Rob