Sad News: Bruce Dorskind Died

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I'm sure Bruce is smiling wherever he is now that this thread has gone negative.

I don't know. Barry made a good effort and I think most of us took something positive away from the interaction in this thread. I will still buy David a beer when we someday meet. I have to believe he's generally smiling when he types this stuff.

[David Atkatz]

You're on, Scott. Perhaps next summer in Cleveland.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I don't know. Barry made a good effort and I think most of us took something positive away from the interaction in this thread. I will still buy David a beer when we someday meet. I have to believe he's generally smiling when he types this stuff.

And I will buy you one too my friend. Dave. (Guiness, perhaps?)

[Ejm1]

Never met Bruce but he did tell me in an email or a post (can't remember) that I was not worthy of scrubbing his toilets. I loved it. I feel Bruce talked the talk because he had what I call "The bravery of being out of range." I feel he would never say anything in person to anyone he had a disagreement with because he was a gutless turd. RIP Bruce.

Looking for 1988 Donruss PSA 4 or higher.

Eric Miller

[Eric72]

Comparing Bruce and Adrian is an apples to oranges proposition, in my humble opinion.

Just my two cents.

Best Regards,

Eric

[cyseymour]

What I find frustrating is that it seems that a lot of people here got hate emails from Bruce, but he never sent me one hate mail. Was I not important enough?

In fact, I have never received a hate mail from anyone on this board in spite of the fact that I tease people relentlessly. What am I doing wrong?

Not a single person on the entire board has said that they'd like to sodomize my wife. I'm not married, but if I were, I'd imagine there'd be a few people who ought to be interested.

Maybe it is a case of "be careful what you wish for". But I am just trying to stay relevant here... where's a good insult when you need one? Somebody help me out here!

[Runscott]

Eric, there are plenty here who agree with you, but...

These 'out of range' internet guys do actually meet up with their nemeses from time to time. It is almost always a friendly event. The rare occasions when the two meet face-to-face and both still desire to carry their internet battle into reality, are very sad. I've only heard of three cases where it happened and two of the three involved jail-time. Those two were both at conventions. Happily for our hobby, one of them was a different hobby, but the internet venom was just as potent. On the third occasion one of the two would not bite. The event was caught on film and and has entertained others in the hobby (not ours) for over a year, much to the embarrassment of the guy with too much testosterone.

Based on what those who knew Bruce in person have said here (and I have plenty of respect for all of them), I'm guessing he would have been friendly in person, even if you were on the bad end of his internet persona.

[iggyman]

I like to think of Bruce as the Howard Cosell of Net54. I never met the man but his death made me sad; yet, I can't honestly say that I will miss his posts. Wherever he is now, I am sure he is at peace.

Will you look at that, we are closing in on 11,000+ views. I've easily been responsible for at least twenty. Just for grins, I looked up the page views on Joe Pelaez Ne54 death thread = 6,105 (views)...............Lionel Carter's death thread = "365" (views).

The sheer number of views and comments in this thread, probably reveals something about us. What that is I am not sure, but if old Bruci's online persona had not been so mean & controversial, this thread would not be hovering around 11,000+ views.

Lovely Day...

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Eric, there are plenty here who agree with you, but...

These 'out of range' internet guys do actually meet up with their nemeses from time to time. It is almost always a friendly event. The rare occasions when the two meet face-to-face and both still desire to carry their internet battle into reality, are very sad. I've only heard of three cases where it happened and two of the three involved jail-time. Those two were both at conventions. Happily for our hobby, one of them was a different hobby, but the internet venom was just as potent. On the third occasion one of the two would not bite. The event was caught on film and and has entertained others in the hobby (not ours) for over a year, much to the embarrassment of the guy with too much testosterone.

Based on what those who knew Bruce in person have said here (and I have plenty of respect for all of them), I'm guessing he would have been friendly in person, even if you were on the bad end of his internet persona.

Scott,

Thank you very much for your reply to my post. It is truly appreciated. I value your opinion quite highly, and find a great deal of sense in what you say.

As it pertains to Bruce, I share the respect you have for those who have weighed in with positive comments on his behalf. Especially considering his recent passing, I think we all (that means everyone here on Net54) should focus on the positives, as it pertains to Mr. Dorskind.

Although I, like you, did not have a history of personal interactions with him, his reputation (the good and the bad) preceded him. All things considered, I believe that his contributions were beneficial...and that counts for quite a bit, in my opinion. He may not have been Jefferson Burdick; however, he gave immeasurably more to our hobby than Adrian; which was the only point I was trying to make.

As for the occasions when Internet rivals meet, face-to-face, Bruce and Adrian will obviously never meet again...if they ever did before.

I sincerely hope this finds you well.

Best Regards,

Eric

[Peter_Spaeth]

Eric72, I believe Scott was responding to Ejm1 (also named Eric), not you. Thus, the quote about "out of range" from that post.

[benjulmag]

Barry started this thread with a request it focus on the positive. I recognize that there are some who hold negative views of Bruce, but for those who called him a friend, of which I am one, it is painful to read some of the posts, some of which IMO are, in their own way, as distasteful as what they are complaining Bruce did. I would respectfully ask that for the balance of this thread we take heed of the adage that if one has nothing nice to say about someone to refrain from commenting.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by iggyman

I like to think of Bruce as the Howard Cosell of Net54. I never met the man but his death made me sad; yet, I can't honestly say that I will miss his posts. Wherever he is now, I am sure he is at peace.

Will you look at that, we are closing in on 11,000+ views. I've easily been responsible for at least twenty. Just for grins, I looked up the page views on Joe Pelaez Ne54 death thread = 6,105 (views)...............Lionel Carter's death thread = "365" (views).

The sheer number of views and comments in this thread, probably reveals something about us. What that is I am not sure, but if old Bruci's online persona had not been so mean & controversial, this thread would not be hovering around 11,000+ views.

Lovely Day...

The Net54 Postmortem View Leaderboard

You'll never know what place you're in.

[barrysloate]

To add to what Corey said, friends and relatives of Bruce will be googling his name and finding this site for the first time. We really don't need to subject them to this stuff. We understand Bruce had serious troubles posting here, but what happens on Net54 should stay here. I would even ask Leon to delete some of the negative comments, although I respect that it's something he does not like to do.

[Rich Klein]

And Corey

Anyone can see what Bruce posted here, when he was on point he was as good as a poster as anyone.

However, when he went off the rails and sent vile emails to some of our fellow members and they still remember and want to bring those emails up; that is totally their option. Just because I chose not to do because he can no longer defend himself; does not prevent others from doing so. And, I think anyone has a a right to see the totality of the man. Besides if someone ever writes the story of Monster and Bruce's participaiton, this will bring extra depth to that multi-layered man.


Rich

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

And Corey

Anyone can see what Bruce posted here, when he was on point he was as good as a poster as anyone.

However, when he went off the rails and sent vile emails to some of our fellow members and they still remember and want to bring those emails up; that is totally their option. Just because I chose not to do because he can no longer defend himself; does not prevent others from doing so. And, I think anyone has a a right to see the totality of the man. Besides if someone ever writes the story of Monster and Bruce's participaiton, this will bring extra depth to that multi-layered man.


Rich

Rich,

I don't take issue that people have a right to express their views. That does not mean however that there should not be some discretion as to when and where to express them. I don't believe this thread, begun in commemoration of Bruce's memory, is the right forum for some of those views.

[Rich Klein]

I respectfully disagree -- people are still really hurt by those truly vile emails Bruce would send. This is, sadly, their best chance to let out their feelings.

And, this is their option to post that, just as your post is your option and I wonder if Bruce is smiling at how much we are paying attention to him even in passing.

Rich

[barrysloate]

Rich- have you ever read someone's obituary, and found he was described as kind, gentle, caring, generous, a great father, etc? In fact, every obituary is written in that same uplifting tone.

Well guess what? Many of those very same people were in fact scoundrels and not very likable at all. But the people who submitted those obits took the high road, as is the custom.

I am the last one to defend how Bruce posted here. I was appalled by it and told him countless times to stop (for the record, he never listened to me even once). But he is no longer with us, and I started this thread as a kind of obituary to him. I know many hated him for his caustic comments. I just wanted this one thread to take the high road. It hasn't, and I guess that's life.

[Preece1]

I have not posted much in the last year due to my own health issues. But I felt the need to here and I couldn't agree with Corey more. I would never argue someone's right to free speech, but at a time of someone's passing I would think we should be thinking about being the better person, being classy. Yes there are nasty emails out there and people are very hurt. Nobody is trying to take the hurt away, or say it never happened, say it wasn't very wrong, but this is not the place.

I find it interesting the "out of range" comment, because much of this thread
seems to be the same thing in reverse. The people describing the nasty things Bruce wrote would never say these things at his funeral, so why say them here because his family will see them. I am not saying that these people don't have the guts to do that at his funeral, but in person I am sure they would use discretion, be the better person and rise above the past.

Bruce was a person that loved collecting, was EXTREMELY knowledgeable about the subject, willing to share that knowledge freely, and I am sorry that knowledge is gone and the sharing will stop. Can't we just leave it there.

[Rich Klein]

I respect you greatly (as well as Corey) and as I posted, I did not mention any of the bad emails Bruce sent to me because he was not here to defend himself.

Having said that, since Bruce sent some really hurtful emails to our fellow posters and they still feel the hurt, then they are venting their opinions. And Barry, about 10-15 percent of the obits are not always the most uplifting kind.

May Bruce in his passing find the peace of mind he never found as an on-line emailer and posting.

Rich

[Ejm1]

Why does everyone think his family will rush to look on Net54? Was this his only lot in life? I doubt it.

[barrysloate]

Rich- I was equally hurt by Bruce's posts (would you believe he even sent me some pretty strong emails at times), and don't doubt how many people are angry with him. I just requested in post #1 that this thread stay positive. It did for a while, then the tone changed.

Eric- it's not that Bruce's friends and relatives care about this site, but if you google his name it will show up on the first page. Some will read it out of curiosity to learn more about him.

[Leon]

In life I have found that 100% of the time, taking the high road is the best path to travel. I, too, would have hoped folks would have taken that one in this thread. As moderator I feel I have a duty to keep the board "real" so, most likely, won't amend any(more) comments. Early in the thread I took one link out, but am hesitant to do anything else. Members can always edit their own comments if they want to. I have a strong personal feeling that when someone passes away we let our differences with them go (unless there were some life and death issue). But that is just me and I fully understand some/many people don't feel the way I do.

What I will say, with a little eye towards the clouds and winking at Bruce, is that he would be happy with some controversy in his memorial thread. Now that would be the Bruce we all came to know on Net54baseball. If nothing else, it is quite fitting....RIP Bruce.

[Rich Klein]

that at least one of the negative posters also made irrelevant negative posts in another thread; that person is looking for attention much in the way Bruce was. And agitators like that we do not need on this board as nothing is being added of value.

WHile I agree with free speech, further research indicated that the people who made the negative posts goal is to stir up the pot in the same way Bruce does and may they be dealt with appropraitely as well.

Rich

[slidekellyslide]

Meanwhile Bruce just added three more cards to the wantlist. Way to go guys.

[howard38]

I

[Ejm1]

It is what it is. We all say stupid things. RIP Bruce and good luck on suing yourself for slander in the afterlife.

Good Day.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by howard38

I believe that people should be remembered for the totality of what they had done in life not just the good things. Dying doesn't make someone a better person. That being said I find some of the responses out of line not to Bruce Dorskind but to Barry Sloate. I don't know Barry and am mostly a lurker but it's obvious that he is one of the most respected forum members. As such the simple request he made to keep this thread positive should be honored. If someone really needs to make a negative post he can start a new thread.

That was very kind Howard but it's not about me. It's about respect for someone who is no longer with us. When Bruce was alive and ranting on this board, many got their fair licks in and even I felt he deserved it. But not after he is gone. Different circumstances.

[howard38]

m

[Rich Klein]

the funniest aspect was I posted on a thread I missed Bruce's posts (remember when he was on point his threads were fascinating) at the very moment was being reinstated.

I'm glad that he left us as a member of the board and not as a banned person.

Rich

[botn]

Barry,

I doubt the harsh emails that Bruce sent you were anything like those that he sent to me and others on the board. My feud with Bruce goes back to 2005. I opted to take the high road and express condolences, as some others did who also never got to see the side of Bruce which his "friends" here claim he was outside of this board. There are obviously people who are not as thick skinned who Bruce was abusive towards and not sure their "negative" posts are so misplaced here, under the circumstances.

One thing that has me slightly puzzled, and all due respect to those who this is directed towards, but you refer to Bruce as a friend yet it seems that none of you knew that he was so sick that it would result in his dying. None of you were phoned, that I know of, to be informed he had passed, etc. It took Barry reading the Obits to know that Bruce had passed. I think I would know if a friend of mine were in such poor health, at the very minimum.

Greg

[benjulmag]

Greg,

Some people who are ill prefer to keep that private. Also, from what I have heard, Bruce's passing might have been unexpected. As to notification, his office sent an email he had passed.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Ejm1

It is what it is. We all say stupid things. RIP Bruce and good luck on suing yourself for slander in the afterlife.

Good Day.

Technically the lawsuit would be for libel.

[oldcardboard]

Originally Posted by Leon

In life I have found that 100% of the time, taking the high road is the best path to travel. I, too, would have hoped folks would have taken that one in this thread. As moderator I feel I have a duty to keep the board "real" so, most likely, won't amend any(more) comments. Early in the thread I took one link out, but am hesitant to do anything else. Members can always edit their own comments if they want to. I have a strong personal feeling that when someone passes away we let our differences with them go (unless there were some life and death issue). But that is just me and I fully understand some/many people don't feel the way I do.

What I will say, with a little eye towards the clouds and winking at Bruce, is that he would be happy with some controversy in his memorial thread. Now that would be the Bruce we all came to know on Net54baseball. If nothing else, it is quite fitting....RIP Bruce.

Well said Leon.

If you need to air dirty laundry to get through your day, your a sad individual. If you cant say something nice about the situation, shut your mouth. Nothing worse than an internet KIA.

[botn]

Corey,

Barry said he was aware Bruce was ill and also noted that he was not surprised to hear he had passed.

Anyway, there are many facets to all of us, and I am sure there are things about Bruce which many people respected however Bruce was not respectful towards many people here. Whether it was a game or some personna he assumed, it does not change the fact that we all saw a side of Bruce here that was less than kind.

I liked having Bruce on here and I am truly sorry he is gone. I actually feel badly for the man as anyone who conducted themselves as he did on the board and privately with me and others, could not have been a happy person. To me that is the most tragic part. We are all going to go at some point but we have a choice with what we do and how we do it while we are here.

[barrysloate]

Greg,
I met Bruce's parents once many years ago, when he was first in the hospital and I went to visit him. Other than that, I doubt anyone in his family knew who I was. Sometimes the news of one's passing comes by word of mouth, or in this case the NY Times. I knew how sick Bruce was and that he wasn't going to go on too much longer.

[7nohitter]

Well...I think many of us fear (admit it) that we will be forgotten when we're gone (irrational as it is since when we die we cease to care/think) but I can only HOPE that when I go (YEARS from now) I am talked about 1/4 as much as Bruce has been. I don't mean by this board, I just mean in general.

Andrew Mi.l.$r

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Rich- I was equally hurt by Bruce's posts (would you believe he even sent me some pretty strong emails at times), and don't doubt how many people are angry with him. I just requested in post #1 that this thread stay positive. It did for a while, then the tone changed.

Eric- it's not that Bruce's friends and relatives care about this site, but if you google his name it will show up on the first page. Some will read it out of curiosity to learn more about him.

Barry, I for one have amended my second post. My relating a recent encounter with another member was not appropriate, so I've removed that portion altogether.

[Rich Klein]

On the people who were truly negative: One is basically a troll, who has been banned in the psat and needs to be permanently banned (IMHO) because he is not adding anything useful to threads with his posts As a hint, you can look at my rebuke of him in Mark Anderson's thread about moving to COMC.

Also the other person has also been known to stir up matters, in this case, the very descriptive and terrible emails he received from Mr. Dorskind still sticks (and rightly so) in his craw. This person I can be more forgiving for in his comments although as Leon said, we all would have been better off taking the high road

However, as I said originally, Bruce is gone, and can no longer defend himself and thus any attacks on him now that he is in the ground does no one any good at all. So, I do agree, let's remember the more positive aspects of what Ivy-League educated Bruce Doskind did in his life and put aside the other issues for a while

Regards
Rich

[Exhibitman]

I have never fathomed the idea that death insulates a person from negative comments. Nothing about dying makes a mean person nicer than he was in life. I suppose it is rooted in ancient superstitions about vengeful ghosts haunting people who speak ill of the dead. I and many others here have no interest in participating in constructing a hagiographic thread about a man who was openly contemptuous of so many of us and so privately venomous to so many here. He does not get a free pass simply because he died. Had I ever met the man I'd have told him to his face precisely what I thought of him and I see no reason to pull my punches now. If that is distasteful to some, well, sorry, but that comes under the heading of sowing what you reap.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I have never fathomed the idea that death insulates a person from negative comments. Nothing about dying makes a mean person nicer than he was in life. I suppose it is rooted in ancient superstitions about vengeful ghosts haunting people who speak ill of the dead. I and many others here have no interest in participating in constructing a hagiographic thread about a man who was openly contemptuous of so many of us and so privately venomous to so many here. He does not get a free pass simply because he died. Had I ever met the man I'd have told him to his face precisely what I thought of him and I see no reason to pull my punches now. If that is distasteful to some, well, sorry, but that comes under the heading of sowing what you reap.

Isn't it reaping what you sow?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

Isn't it reaping what you sow?

yoda.

[cyseymour]

The common expression, is "reaping what you sow", but it would also be possible to sow what you reap if what you were reaping were from the previous harvest. Then you sow it afterwards with new seeds and henceforth sow what you reap.

It is sort of like the "chicken and the egg" conundrum... whether you believe the chicken or egg came first depends upon your philosophical perspective. If you believe in God, then you would believe that the chicken came first because the chicken would be the object of God's creation. You could say that the chicken was created as a miracle, or that the egg was not of a chicken egg and maybe was laid by a salamander or some other egg-laying species.

Inversely, atheists would generally choose the rational/scientific perspective that a chicken cannot be born without some sort of egg, which must be therefore a chicken egg or some sort of evolutionary equivalent void of miracles of God, springing from some sort of scientific explanation for evolution and creation.

In this scenario, perhaps people really are sowing what they reap, because Bruce, however he may have been in real life, was a quite despicable poster. So if what we all reaping were hateful posts and emails , then postmortem what is being sown is a picture of Bruce as a kinder and gentle human. But clearly there are those who rightfully object to that personification.

My personal view is that Bruce was a nice guy who was poisoned by a rather large amount of social anxiety which manifested itself in bizarre ways on the internet. That in no way justifies his behavior, however. I don't think it's fair to take shots at someone postmortem, but to recognize that someone was less than a perfect human being is fair game.

[Runscott]

I think there was some sort of chicken-like creature born with a very thin shell, that was practically a membrane, but you could still call it a shell. The chicken before it had more of a membrane around it, so you wouldn't call it a shell. But when that occurred would be subjective, and the differences between the membrane-shell and the shell-membrane would be so slight over the generations, that it's unlikely any two people would choose the same exact chicken/egg combination to answer the riddle. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I think there was some sort of chicken-like creature born with a very thin shell, that was practically a membrane, but you could still call it a shell. The chicken before it had more of a membrane around it, so you wouldn't call it a shell. But when that occurred would be subjective, and the differences between the membrane-shell and the shell-membrane would be so slight over the generations, that it's unlikely any two people would choose the same exact chicken/egg combination to answer the riddle. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Yes, but if it still had a shell, no matter how thin it may be, that would still be considered an egg, no?

[Leon]

Guys, let's be respectful of Barry's thread and request, if nothing else...thanks.

and I should quickly add, that I am at fault too, but no more.....

[Runscott]

My thinking was that any deflection of the nasty reflections would be a good thing, but perhaps I was wrong.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

My thinking was that any deflection of the nasty reflections would be a good thing, but perhaps I was wrong.

I don't think there has to be a right or a wrong, Scott. However, I think we should all be able to agree (and per the rules, but who's counting?) that we should adhere to the original thread posters topic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think there has to be a right or a wrong, Scott. However, I think we should all be able to agree (and per the rules, but who's counting?) that we should adhere to the original thread posters topic.

Just giving you my reasoning. I understand yours as well, and since you're the boss I'll certainly adhere to your request.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Leon

Guys, let's be respectful of Barry's thread and request, if nothing else...thanks.

and I should quickly add, that I am at fault too, but no more.....

Good point. You're correct that we should respect Barry's wishes. Like Scott, I will adhere to your request.

[cyseymour]

This will be my last post on this thread, and I want to take a break for a while as I feel as if I am overposting. I was quite excited to meet everyone at the National, maybe that's why.

About Bruce, in a sincere message, I will say that it is clear that although he may have been a good guy in the rest of his life, he wrote a lot of things that people found very hurtful and that those feelings are real and have stuck with those people.

That is very unfortunate, but one of the things we can learn is that what we write really does affect people and probably more than we realize. We are a community and ought to treat each other with respect.

That doesn't mean we can't have differences of opinion, or even playfully teasing people at times in order to be friendly. But there is a big difference between that and the type of asinine, hateful posts and emails that Bruce made.

Nothing can be done about the past, and hopefully Bruce is in a place now where he is more at peace with himself and others. But we can learn as we go forward that it doesn't need to be like that - it is possible to have a message board that feels safe and where people care and respect each other.