A Modern Objective View of E90-1 Rarities

[tedzan]

Hey Scott

A lot of work there guy, thanks for the time and effort you put into this research.....great stuff.

Years ago, I did a comparison of the E90-1's 1910 (last) series subjects with the 1909 RAMLY. There is no doubt that this E90-1 last series cards were
short-printed. And a good number of them are Boston-based and Cincinnati players (Graham, Ritchey, Stahl, Bill Sweeney, and Karger, Lobert, McLean,
Mitchell, respectively).

I arrived at this theory that a possible conflict with the 1909 RAMLY set may have resulted, since American Caramel did not include these guys in their
1st and 2nd series issued in 1908 - 1909.

And, of course (in my opinion the toughest) Tris Speaker was issued in the short-printed 1910 series since his first full season in the Major's was 1909.

Any thoughts on this hypotheses ?



My 3 favorite E90-1 cards

.




TED Z

[ScottFandango]

I surely thought you were on to something back then...

those cards you listed make sense that they were issued at the same time..

Aside from the Boston thing, not only does the Pop report confirm their similarities, but if you look closely at the artwork in those cards, you will see they have a different "print-dot pattern" than the earlier issued (more common) cards...

they have an almost "Speckled" look to their backgrounds, not a solid/blended look like most of the others...

the B Sweeney has the most obvious "speckling" going on...check it out!

PS, NICE RARITIES YOU POSTED!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

Aside from the Boston thing, not only does the Pop report confirm their similarities, but if you look closely at the artwork in those cards, you will see they have a different "print-dot pattern" than the earlier issued (more common) cards...

they have an almost "Speckled" look to their backgrounds, not a solid/blended look like most of the others...

the B Sweeney has the most obvious "speckling" going on...check it out!

Scott

Very interesting regarding the printing characteristics you have noted on 1910 series cards. I will check them out.

RAMLY was situated in Worcester, MA. Therefore, it is understandable why ACC withheld the Boston-based players' cards until this last series.
I did some research regarding why the Cincinnati players were withheld until this last series; however, I cannot find it. When I find it I'll post it.
I do recall that there is a connection with the Worcester club.


TED Z

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I arrived at this theory that a possible conflict with the 1909 RAMLY set may have resulted, since American Caramel did not include these guys in their
1st and 2nd series issued in 1908 - 1909.

TED Z

Hi Ted,

The old thread was here: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...l+ramly&page=4

I'm afraid I still don't understand your theory. Either you are postulating (a) that the Boston players pictured in Ramly could not appear in E90-1 until later, or (b) because of some arrangement between Ramly and the Boston clubs, no Boston player - whether they appeared in Ramly or not - could be on a 1909 E90-1.

I think those are the only two possible theories, but I have never been able to figure out which one you were putting forth.

But here is the thing - both (a) and (b) don't work.

There are many Boston players in E90-1 that we think were from the scarcer late series who have no Ramly card. So if it was (a) above, there is no reason why those cards could not have been issued in 1909.

So maybe Ramly had the Boston clubs locked up - ie. (b) above? The quick answer to that one is "no" - Cy Young Boston proves this is not the case.

I'm not trying to pick at you, but I can't understand how any "theory" could be formed when either way it does not work on the facts.

Cheers,
Blair

[Bosox Blair]

Maybe one of my problems with your theory is that - as a Red Sox collector - I don't see any significant overlap with these sets.

In E90-1 there are only 6 Red Sox cards (T204 has twice as many). Here are the E90-1 Red Sox:

1. Tris Speaker - does not appear in Ramly at all
2. Cy Young - does not appear in Ramly at all
3. Biff Schlitzer - does not appear in Ramly at all
4. Charley Hall - does not appear in Ramly at all
5. Ed Karger - appears in Ramly, but not as a Boston player
6. Jake Stahl - this is the only card of the 6 where he appears with Boston in both E90-1 and T204.

Maybe I'm obtuse, but how can a relationship theory be formed on the basis of this?

Cheers,
Blair

[tedzan]

Blair

I posted this thread about the E90-1 set back in 2006. I think I mentioned my RAMLY vs American Caramel (E90-1) theory in my thread............

" Let's Talk E90-1....toughest Candy card set ? "
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=89941

Anyhow, I'll reprise my theory in a follow-up post here, as I have to go out now.


TED Z

[ScottFandango]

In checking EBay, (I know not all encompassing but the most visible site)
I noticed something that was expected.....

Of the top 14 cards on the scarcity list, only ONE is available for purchase on ebay right now..($600 Howell Windup -not mine)

There aren't any others for sale, supporting my position...

Next I will check completed auctions ....

[ScottFandango]

A large batch recently sold on eBay, many nice cards and many with a July 10th 1910 stamp on the back....a Joe Jackson PSA 1 sold for $4750 with no buyers premium...

A Tommy Leach Throwing (a new age rarity card) PSA 1 sold for $91, which was more than all the following individual cards from the same sale:

Tannenhill PSA 3.5
J Sweeney PSA 3
Schaefer PSA 4 mk
Stovall PSA 3
Stone No hands PSA 4
Mullin PSA 4
Leever PSA 3
Tommy Leach Batting PSA 3
Jordan PSA 2.5
Howell PSA 4
Engle PSA 5mk
Donlin PSA 3
Corridon PSA 4 mk
Camnitz PSA 4 mk
Bransfield P no shirt PSA 5mk
Bradley PSA 5 mk
And a 3 card Auth lot of Keeler Tinker Overall....

So I will be watching for other sales of the aforementioned new rarities...can they continue to separate themselves from the other cards...
Time will Tell

[tbob]

I put together an E90-1 set card by card about 6-7 years ago and sold it about a year ago so I wanted to offer my observations about card rarity.
I am blown away by the number of McLean cards in the pop lists! It was far and away the cardest card for me to find. Shean was the next toughest.
I didn't have any problem with the Howell, Bescher or Dougherty cards, maybe I was just lucky.
The two toughest HOFers, for me, without a doubt were Speaker and Walsh.

I'd rank my top 5 in toughness to find:

1) McLean
2) Shean
3) Speaker
4) Walsh
5) Leach throwing

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by tbob

I put together an E90-1 set card by card about 6-7 years ago and sold it about a year ago so I wanted to offer my observations about card rarity.
I am blown away by the number of McLean cards in the pop lists! It was far and away the cardest card for me to find. Shean was the next toughest.
I didn't have any problem with the Howell, Bescher or Dougherty cards, maybe I was just lucky.
The two toughest HOFers, for me, without a doubt were Speaker and Walsh.

I'd rank my top 5 in toughness to find:

1) McLean
2) Shean
3) Speaker
4) Walsh
5) Leach throwing

Bob, it looks like your experience matches the posted population Reports pretty closely. I bet though, that someone could say they found McLean rather easy in their personal quest. That is what makes collecting interesting, everyone has had similar yet inherently unique experiences that shape our beliefs.

I agree with your list BTW