Leland's LOA Credibility?

[shelly]

I would trust them more than the Tpa's.

[drcy]

Their LOA is considered as reputable in the hobby as anyone's. You can do what you want, but I don't see a need to pay the fees and send it to a TPA. If you want second opinions, post a photo of the signature here.

I don't see what's wrong with an auction house issuing its own LOA. Unless the LOA is wrong.

[Leon]

They are an advertiser and Josh is a pretty good hobby friend, so take that into account. But I have always heard from most hobbyists that they do a very good job on authenticating autos, photos etc......

[drcy]

I'm not an autograph expert and don't pretend to be one, but, across the wide scape of collectibles, is one of the most reliable authenticity-wise auction houses out there.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by shelly

I would trust them more than the Tpa's.

I second this.

[JimStinson]

Nothing personal to be gained or lost here as I don't know him and have only spoken a couple times but most hobby veterans (including myself) will tell you that Leland's Mike Heffner is one of the best in the biz regarding autographs.
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[todeen]

I bought the autograph without a TPA on Leland's reputation as a knowledgeable auction house. I just didn't know for resale if it would be an issue (but I don't plan on reselling it - I'm just a collector). I also don't have questions about the signature because as far as I can tell it looks as genuine as any signature already authenticated on ebay. I just like having the peace of mind when showing off my collection as to say that my autos are authentic.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by todeen

I bought the autograph without a TPA on Leland's reputation as a knowledgeable auction house. I just didn't know for resale if it would be an issue (but I don't plan on reselling it - I'm just a collector). I also don't have questions about the signature because as far as I can tell it looks as genuine as any signature already authenticated on ebay. I just like having the peace of mind when showing off my collection as to say that my autos are authentic.

There is no "Magic Wand" when it comes to authenticating autographs , its like this , EYEBALLS + EXPERIENCE +REPUTATION = THE RESULT
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[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by todeen

I bought the autograph without a TPA on Leland's reputation as a knowledgeable auction house. I just didn't know for resale if it would be an issue (but I don't plan on reselling it - I'm just a collector). I also don't have questions about the signature because as far as I can tell it looks as genuine as any signature already authenticated on ebay. I just like having the peace of mind when showing off my collection as to say that my autos are authentic.

I'm willing to bet most on here will not see an item in your collection and feel it's real because it has a letter from PSA or JSA.

Ken

[JimStinson]

Let me try and paint a different picture for you...and this relates to ALL REPUTABLE AUTOGRAPH SELLERS , who put YEARS of experience and their reputations on the line every time they sell an autograph....

Now imagine for a second that Gordon Ramsey or Wolfgang Puck or ANY famous chef has just prepared for you his "signature dish" , and before you take a bite you take the plate and run over to "Moe's diner" and ask Moe if in his opinion your "Chicken Francese" was cooked properly, Moe looks the dish over and says "Give me a hundred bucks and I'll tell ya"...
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[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Let me try and paint a different picture for you...and this relates to ALL REPUTABLE AUTOGRAPH SELLERS , who put YEARS of experience and their reputations on the line every time they sell an autograph....

Now imagine for a second that Gordon Ramsey or Wolfgang Puck or ANY famous chef has just prepared for you his "signature dish" , and before you take a bite you take the plate and run over to "Moe's diner" and ask Moe if in his opinion your "Chicken Francese" was cooked properly, Moe looks the dish over and says "Give me a hundred bucks and I'll tell ya"...
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BUYING BASEBALL AUTOGRAPHS
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All depends, does Moe wear a bow tie?

[Exhibitman]

Returning to the OP, I'd say it really depends on what you plan to do with the item. If you want it encapsulated in a TPA holder, obviously you will need to submit it. If you are happy with it outside a holder, no need to spend the $ on a TPA opinion. Whether the opinion of the TPA is "better" than the opinion of Lelands is speculative at best since it depends on the item, the purpose of the opinion, and the target audience. If you are going to flip the item via Ebay you may need a TPA cert to do it. Personally, I am comfortable with a legitimate AH or seller COA. I have signed items with Hakes COAs on them and Topps Vault COAs on them, and I am perfectly content with them. It is all just opinion; none of it changes the item itself. TPAs are wrong from time to time, as are any other experts giving opinions, so it really boils down to your comfort level. Lelands is reputable and certainly appears to be around for the long haul, so if the Lelands COA is unequivocal and can be passed on to a third party, I see no reason to get a TPA involved unless you want to.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Let me try and paint a different picture for you...and this relates to ALL REPUTABLE AUTOGRAPH SELLERS , who put YEARS of experience and their reputations on the line every time they sell an autograph....

Now imagine for a second that Gordon Ramsey or Wolfgang Puck or ANY famous chef has just prepared for you his "signature dish" , and before you take a bite you take the plate and run over to "Moe's diner" and ask Moe if in his opinion your "Chicken Francese" was cooked properly, Moe looks the dish over and says "Give me a hundred bucks and I'll tell ya"...
_____________________________
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BUYING BASEBALL AUTOGRAPHS
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+1
+1
I love this post .

[Exhibitman]

The chef thing is amusing but not a good analogy for Lelands position relative to the TPAs. Unlike authenticating a signature, the customer doesn't have to worry about disclaimers limiting the chef's responsibility for his food. Much as I appreciate that Lelands has expertise and is willing to do more than obtain the execrable PSA/DNA or JSA "auction" LOAs that other companies use, I don't get the warm fuzzies that I would hope for from Leland's authenticity policy:

"Lelands stands by the authenticity of everything it sells for a period of three years from the date of the auction. It is up to the client to verify authenticity within that period of time. However, Lelands and its agents will be the final determinant of the authenticity of each and every piece it sells. We are not bound by the opinion of grading services, outside authenticators, or so-called experts. Letters of authenticity are only available for those pieces where " LOA " is listed in the catalogue copy. Otherwise, your invoice and that alone will serve as your letter of authenticity."

As I lawyer I appreciate the weasel wording in it. Basically, it gives me three years to find out if the item is good, but Lelands flatly states that it has to sole right to decide if its original opinion is correct. Mr. Fox, here's the henhouse to guard. I could in theory buy an item that I later find out had to have been forged after the signer died--like a Ty Cobb signed program from Ty Cobb's funeral, to use an absurd example--and Lelands would be within its rights under this policy to tell me to pound sand when I ask for a refund [of course, I could prosecute a case for actual fraud if I could prove that Lelands had knowledge or made a misrepresentation of fact because in general one cannot exculpate oneself from the consequences of one's own fraud, but that is a technical issue for lawyers that isn't really germane to my point]. I appreciate that Lelands has to limit its downside risks on the stuff it sells but those limits do suggest a place for TPAs in the overall scheme of things.

One question I'd pose for the Board is what exactly is an average collector to do if the AH's don't offer unequivocal guarantees and the TPAs are all crappy? Because from where I sit, the only alternative then becomes not to collect at all except for the relatively narrow band of legal documents and modern signed in the presence collectibles that have external indicators of authenticity.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I'm willing to bet most on here will not see an item in your collection and feel it's real because it has a letter from PSA or JSA.

Ken

I would agree, but times are changing. I read the blogs about botched TPA opinions and sometimes you just don't know. But JSA and PSA does help the re-sale value. One of my local respected card shops who offered his LOA is no longer around and someone in Florida would have no idea who he is. PSA is nationwide.

[travrosty]

lelands is nationwide./nationally known too.