How about some answers for this? Where are you Peter Nash?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

+1. It baffles me why Nash, whose misdeeds are of the intentional and malicious sort and are well documented, gets a free pass from Travis while the AHs and TPGs, who are at worst incompetent, are subjects of such shrill, vindictive screeds. The utter glee he shows in finding a purported TPG or AH mistake--out of the tens of thousands of authentications and listings every year--make it sound like he has a vendetta against all of them. Consequently, I too do not trust much of what he says.

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

Are you chalking up Nash's dirty deeds to "human error"?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

I don't agree with this. Every issue I have had with PSA (and I have had many), they have gone above and beyond to correct their mistake. With that said, I would rather conduct business with PSA than Peter Nash.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I don't agree with this. Every issue I have had with PSA (and I have had many), they have gone above and beyond to correct their mistake. With that said, I would rather conduct business with PSA than Peter Nash.

how did they correct the ty cobb laser print, by admitting it? nope.

they know that the bob fitzsimmons wife signed exemplar is still up on psaautographfacts and do they correct it by taking it down? nope, the cap anson exemplar, do they take it down when they know its not real? nope.

please deal with reality. are grad and spence experts? you decide, they give out loa's with out exemplars to compare the signature to. some experts.



Is nash a third party authenticator? i didnt see where he was a third party authenticator.

bottom line, if nash were only talking about Coaches corner, morales or ted taylor, not only would it be NO BIG DEAL, but the people here would be joining in. it's just because he shows the bonehead authentications by the buddies of this site do people get mad. That's it. no one would care if it were coaches corner/morales mistakes on HOS.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Is nash a third party authenticator? i didnt see where he was a third party authenticator.

bottom line, if nash were only talking about Coaches corner, morales or ted taylor, not only would it be NO BIG DEAL, but the people here would be joining in. it's just because he shows the bonehead authentications by the buddies of this site do people get mad. That's it. no one would care if it were coaches corner/morales mistakes on HOS.

Clearly the majority of the people who post to this forum recognize that PSA and JSA make mistakes...most of us also realize that they don't own up to most of those mistakes. Nothing you have posted though points to outright fraudulent activity...it just points out ineptitude. Can you say the same for your newest, bestest buddy Peter Nash?

[travrosty]

you are all against showing the mistakes and the sheer lunacy of these certs that are being issued because...

you are afraid, afraid that there is nothing to take its place, a void is worse than what we have now. so you accept less than the best, because it is the lesser of two anvils.

you are also mad because almost everyone owns many, many certs by the companies, and when the day of reckoning comes and the certs go the way of gai and line birdcages, then what. wave bye bye to all that money spent on the certs.

so you blame others, you blame the messenger. doesnt matter if the pope ran hauls of abc, xyz, you would find fault with him, because the message doesnt fit your financial concerns.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

you are all against showing the mistakes and the sheer lunacy of these certs that are being issued because...

you are afraid, afraid that there is nothing to take its place, a void is worse than what we have now. so you accept less than the best, because it is the lesser of two anvils.

you are also mad because almost everyone owns many, many certs by the companies, and when the day of reckoning comes and the certs go the way of gai and line birdcages, then what. wave bye bye to all that money spent on the certs.

so you blame others, you blame the messenger. doesnt matter if the pope ran hauls of abc, xyz, you would find fault with him, because the message doesnt fit your financial concerns.

BS...I don't own a single autograph certed by JSA or PSA or any abc TPA. Not one single autograph. I wouldn't care if all the TPA's ceased to exist this very moment, it wouldn't affect me one bit. I am fascinated with your selective white knighthood though.

[travrosty]

you know what is really interesting, that i get pm's and emails, from some people on this board that agree with me wholeheartedly, some people you would know, and they say to keep going, they are behind the effort. but due to the exposure of getting slammed from people like you, they must remain anonymous.

that says volumes. who wants to take these slings and arrows from people who only want to prop up the status quo? the status quo is falling down on its own without any help. it is just a matter of time, so to keep the same old same old gravy train going is not what is in the cards. people will demand more from their third party authenticators and auction houses will have had enough too, along with the authorities.

when that day comes i will ask you to come onto a thread and defend the tpa's and we will see who shows up. no one will show up.

and like i have said all along, i am not against the idea of third party authenticators, when they take the time to do it right, dont cut corners, and have the experience to actually authenticate autographs. that is not the problem. what i have a problem with is the way it is being done now, without any responsibility, accountability, transparency, auditing function. The companies should show exemplars of every authentication they ever do when asked by the consumer. right now, none of them do that. they thumb their nose at the consumer, they couldnt care less except for the check has to go through.

Imagine a large firm not being audited, not being inspected or held up to the standards that the company sets for itself. no one is going into these companies and seeing if they are practicing what they say on the loa's or on the website.

in the autograph authentication world, the honor system stinks.

[travrosty]

now i will go and do some stuff outside of the computer realm and you guys can do what the thread suggests, talk about nash, let's see how much nash talk you have in you, it should go on for pages, right? no more me, just nash, let's go ,

oh, you will all move along now, great. it was a fake all along, just like all these threads that get started when the call goes out behind the scenes to start a thread like this.

mission accomplished people, the flash mob can all do something else now.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

oh, you will all move along now, great. it was a fake all along, just like all these threads that get started when the call goes out behind the scenes to start a thread like this.

mission accomplished people, the flash mob can all do something else now.

Delusional AND Paranoid.

[thecatspajamas]

Do they make Immodium for diarrhea of the mouth?

[shelly]

There is one problem with all of this. Is what Nash has to say is true or is it B.S. I am not defending anyone. I just asking a question. Good guy or bad guy is what he is saying helping

[CW]

Imagine a large firm not being audited, not being inspected or held up to the standards that the company sets for itself. no one is going into these companies and seeing if they are practicing what they say on the loa's or on the website.

OK, I will give you this, Travis -- this is a legitimate gripe. I could only imagine what would happen if a company like PSA had to be ISO certified. The ISO auditors would come in there and tear that place a new you-know-what.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually.

+1 million

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

Beautifully written post. I am in total agreement all around.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

You haven't been paying attention have you?

when they issue loa for an autograph without any exemlars to compare it to, even though the loa says it was comapared to exemplars, is that just human error, an innocent mistake?


NO N-O!


as far as the bad exemplars on psa autograph facts, we showed them the rosalie fitzsimmons autograph where the fitzsimmons part matches up exactly with the fake fitzsimmons they have on there, so they know already its bad, they just dont care.

Of course you don't know if we are right or not. That's why you defend psa. if you knew if we were right or not, you wouldn't. How is that PSA slabbed 'signed' Holyfield card doing? You threw it away, right?


We tried contacting psa and the auction houses in the so called 'nice' way, we were polite, respectful, caring, loving, all-american, etc. THEY DONT CARE! That's what it got us when we tried to help. They didn't give a damn!

Me and M.O. from fighttoys tried to help heritage, I tried to help psa, they couldn't give a F.R.A. about it. It's the cold shoulder brush off. They would just say - thanks, we will take care of it, and then it was business as usual. The band plays on!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

That's why you defend psa.

I don't defend PSA; PSA defends against me.

Originally Posted by travrosty

How is that PSA slabbed 'signed' Holyfield card doing? You threw it away, right?

Not on your say-so.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

Well said, and unfortunately I'll bet only 99% of the forum understand this point.

Ken

[thenavarro]

Adam,

Your post is too insightful for this thread. Please cease and desist sir.

Mike

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Adam,

Your post is too insightful for this thread. Please cease and desist sir.

Mike

some of these places, (not psa or jsa ofr course) want money over everything and admitting mistakes and correcting them for the good of the hobby doesnt fit their profit sharing plan so to speak. in other words they dont care.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by travrosty

some of these places, (not psa or jsa ofr course) want money over everything and admitting mistakes and correcting them for the good of the hobby doesnt fit their profit sharing plan so to speak. in other words they dont care.

Are you actually saying that without irony in a thread about a man who ripped people off for over $760,000???????????????????? A man who loves slamming others' mistakes but refuses to acknowledge his own??

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

some of these places, (not psa or jsa ofr course) want money over everything and admitting mistakes and correcting them for the good of the hobby doesnt fit their profit sharing plan so to speak. in other words they dont care.

I think most of us agree with this....are the mistakes being made by JSA and PSA mistakes or something sinister? I seriously don't see what benefit PSA gets from giving a thumbs up to a printed PT Barnum signature.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

some of these places, (not psa or jsa ofr course) want money over everything and admitting mistakes and correcting them for the good of the hobby doesnt fit their profit sharing plan so to speak. in other words they dont care.

Of course you are being facetious in your first line, but we all agree with you on this Travis. You will not find a single person here who thinks the TPAs want what's good for the hobby over profit. They are marketing machines, selling a flawed product. It just doesn't seem to bother most of us as much as it does you.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

They are marketing machines, selling a flawed product.

The smartest sentence in this thread.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Of course you are being facetious in your first line, but we all agree with you on this Travis. You will not find a single person here who thinks the TPAs want what's good for the hobby over profit. They are marketing machines, selling a flawed product. It just doesn't seem to bother most of us as much as it does you.

And thats the biggest problem i think we have as a hobby, the apathy.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

And thats the biggest problem i think we have as a hobby, the apathy.

See, I worked at Topps for two years. It is a very poorly run company where one hand doesn't know what the other 33 are doing. It was also a pretty hectic job with lots of deadlines. But that didn't really bother me because it was just baseball cards, which is something I used to tell myself if I found stress creeping in at the job, "It's just baseball cards." I wasn't curing cancer, but I wasn't causing it, either. Can you see my point?

Now, when I go on other hobby websites that are more focused on modern baseball cards, there are arguments happening that shadow those here about the TPAs, but they are about Topps. Topps doesn't care about us, they are ruining the hobby, etc. You know where I side on those? It's just baseball cards. If you don't like what Topps is doing, don't patronize them, and if it is causing anger and higher blood pressure, than perhaps painting or birdwatching (or better yet, vintage!) might be a better hobby. But I can promise you that there is no evil plot or fraudulant behavior going on at Topps, just a group of jabronis at a poorly run company struggling to get a product on the street. It's just baseball cards.

I feel the same way about TPAs. I like autograph collecting. I have been doing it for 20+ years. The hobby had problems before the TPAs came along, and it will have problems when they fail. But when it comes to the opinions of these self-proclaimed experts, I can use or ignore them, which is more and more becoming the latter. You can call this apathy. I call it enjoyment and staying sane. It's just scribbles on paper.

Granted, I don't make my livlihood from autos, like some around here do, but maybe this will help you better understand my position on the topic.