How many card shops have become just like this......

[slidekellyslide]

I agree with everything you've written...I said that business is NOT good for card companies. I still believe there are far more people looking for modern player cards than there are Ty Cobb collectors. I don't even think this is disputable.

[barrysloate]

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

[kmac32]

Would anybody like to buy a Carlos Marmol rookie, I'm sure somebody can get it gardaed and you will have to pay someone to buy it. Reverse economics. LOL

[travrosty]

kids arent buying, the adults are for 100 dollars a pack, hoping to get that autograph insert card, you might as well have all the commons in the packs just blank pieces of white cardboard, they basically all go in the trash anyway. they just want the "hit" the memorabilia jersey card or the autograph card or the vintage autograph insert card. it's like a scratch off lottery that others have mentioned already.

kids arent buying these packs and trying to put together sets like we used to.

[sb1]

back then, packs were available at the I.G.A., the local ball diamond snack shack, the Duckwall's store, hell even the swimming pool concession stand had some, etc. and this was in a town of 2,000 population. My first year of 1969 Topps baseball, they were a nickel a pack. Now every kid in town had change from selling pop bottles or allowances, my grandmother would give me a dollar, that 20 packs! and Al McBean was in every 1st series pack it seemed like.

Nowadays, packs are several dollars, kids no longer work for change or get allowances(they get stipends instead) and need a friggin debit card(I do not use one) to make purchases.

While we decry this as an atrocity, it's simply evolution of a society and a collectible which unfortunately are not going to survive.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

I misunderstood you then, Barry. I completely agree.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

What will do you think will be their motivation to collect vintage cards?

I'd be curious to hear from those who did NOT collect as a kid. What got you started as an adult? (I have my guesses but I don't want to presume)

[barrysloate]

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

[cobblove]

Just thought Id add my thoughts on the "Dying hobby"
I agree it is alive and well with current internet sales.
But on the concern of the younger people getting into the hobby. I think it does not start and end with the sports card hobby shop. It's completely about the game in general. Its about getting the kids playing the game and also respecting the current players. And making it easy to see a real game to respect the game. My thoughts I think we need to make it easier to have kids go to a game and not make it a 1 time a year event like disnyland(ticket prices seem to be very strong). It needs to be a family driven price for tickets to get in and learn the game. i know they make an effort on this but the prices are getting higher and attendance seems lower. I hear a lot lately that baseball is boring to watch. But all i see is tickets going for more than a flight to the next state. There are several problems I think. And my view is that it needs to go back to why whe enjoy collecting a sport as a hobby.
Just saying my concerns and not the norm Im sure.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

Exactly! This is the point I try to make in every fate of the hobby thread.

I doubt many 16 year olds are drinking $300 bottles of wine or using stamps. When was the last time you saw someone under the age of 18 use a penny? The hobby will be fine, I'm not worried.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

Oops!....and he's one of my favorite players.

[Rich Klein]

real money comes from the "new" cards. With the licensing fees MLB gets from Topps and MLBPA gets from Topps, Upper Deck and Panini, we are about one percent of the collectors.

Barry, it would be nice to get people right to vintage but you got to start somewhere and Wally World and Target are now our front lines in many locations.

And there is the "hope" factor, for example -- (as a plug here) -- read my revioews in Sports Collectors Daily and my editor now puts all my stories on Facebook. Talking about a product like Topps 2 Baseball got about 40 likes, talking about The Trader Speaks got about 10 likes and talking about some other topics got maybe five likes. In other words, lots of people like the new stuff and it's not going away any time soon.

As for the lady's store, I think at this point, if I remember the article correctly she is 89 years old and the store gives her something to do and frankly keeping up with all the new stuff is hard. You have to keep up with both players and products.

Rich

[murcerfan]

Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

I pulled a Dizzy Trout once.

No wait...... different forum, sorry.

[murcerfan]

I don't even know where I'd go if I wanted to buy a pack of baseball cards.

Was in a walmart for the first time in years last night (buying another dehumidifier) and waiting at check-out I saw no BB cards on display.

I used to score packs of '70 and '71 Topps across the street from our Middle School every day at a candy store (yes, a candy store directly across the street run by a little old lady) as did most of the hoodlums that rode the bus home with me, we'd swap cards and talk baseball the whole ride home

....happy times.

We never figured out the high numbered cards came out during summer break

[barrysloate]

Hi Rich- a few thoughts about what you said.

I think there will be somebody somewhere buying newer cards, but there will still be many future collectors who will go straight to vintage. Every baseball fan has heard of Ty Cobb and Christy Mathewson so that is not a stretch at all.

Of the dwindling number of new card buyers, how many are buying to piecemeal complete sets together, and how many are buying only for the chase cards? I don't consider the latter to be a form of collecting, but more akin to buying a quick-pick lottery ticket.

How many stories have you heard about people buying packs, opening them up at the counter, and then throwing away the cards after they discover they didn't get any valuable ones? That's not collecting either.

Of course as long as new cards are being issued, some people will be buying them. But the number of buyers will be tiny compared to what we might consider the golden age of baseball cards (of which our definition may vary).

[cardaholic]

It's sort of fitting that the leader of the dinosaur media sought out a dinosaur hobby shop for their article.
The internet has changed the card business, both vintage and modern. The chase card explosion (autos, game-used, etc.) has further changed the modern card business. The Times chose a card dealer who hasn't been with the times in decades and who seems to be running a store as a hobby to keep busy. They also got a choice quote from Upper Deck's "marketing guru", who when he's not busy urging collectors on the UD blog to be their local card store's sugar daddy [seriously - read it and retch] is only too happy to go along with the absurd idea that collectors still aren't used to buying and selling cards on the internet.

The modern card market is strong, but not much of it is about set collecting any more - Topps, Heritage, and Allen & Ginter are the big exceptions. Now, it's primarily player or team collecting, and collectors buy differently. A few years ago, team slots in online box breaks were almost unheard of. Now, it's how most high-end modern sets are sold and opened.

It's not surprising that the major retail stores are selling fewer and fewer cards. Between pack searchers and lousy odds for the expensive cards in retail packs, many collectors of modern cards avoid the retail card aisles.

I agree with almost everything Rich Klein has said in this thread, although I don't think Brooks Robinson will be forgotten - he has achieved legend status in Baltimore such that kids there know who he is.

[yomass]

Go long Magic cards, Ninja turtle action figures and MIB classic Nintendo games.
Those are what today's kids will be nostalgic for when they grow up.
Even those worthless beanie babies will be worth having in 2035...

[packs]

I am in the camp of hoping that in 30 years when advanced collectors today are old and selling their collection en masse that prices plummet due to an over saturated market and no demand from the incoming generation.

I know of no human outside of this board that would know who Addie Joss was. They brought his name up on Sports Center after Bailey's second no-hitter and the anchor acted like Joss was just some guy who pitched a hundred years ago. No thought as to who he was.

Personally I know no one my age that collects. At card shows I might see one other person my age looking at pre-war. There are collectors my age on the board, but I don't know if they're whales like the advanced collectors. They may turn into them, but will you need that kind of cash in 30 years? I don't think so. I would be very surprised if T206 Cobb's in a 3 are still selling for $1,000 30 years from now. And I don't see them going up after all the cards in private collections are freed up by estate sales.

Looking forward to my collection being worthless so I can have all of the cards I've always wanted while people shell out $10,000 for a Bowman Pujols.

[Vol]

Originally Posted by packs

I know of no human outside of this board that would know who Addie Joss was.

Personally I know no one my age that collects.

+1

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by yomass

Go long Magic cards, Ninja turtle action figures and MIB classic Nintendo games.
Those are what today's kids will be nostalgic for when they grow up.
Even those worthless beanie babies will be worth having in 2035...

+1

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

There are people looking for Steve Trout cards?