How many card shops have become just like this......

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

+1

The front end trading card business of the big boys i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toys-R-US is getting smaller and smaller each year. I know this for a fact. This isn’t being cut and reduced because business is good…or just a bit down.

Well I don't really believe that business is good for the baseball card industry, I just don't feel that Barry's statement that people are forgoing new card collecting and heading straight to vintage is exactly true. I would bet most new vintage collectors headed to vintage because of products like Topps Heritage and Allen & Ginter. And I do believe there are more people searching out the newer baseball stars than there are people looking for a T206 Cobb.

I do agree though that kids just aren't buying cards anymore...it's all a gambling racket with new product and has been for more than a decade. Who drops $5,000 on a card of a guy who has only been in the big leagues for a month?? That card might not be worth more than a buck ten years from now. Smart people are putting that $5,000 down on a guy already in the hall of fame that's been dead for 50 years.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well I don't really believe that business is good for the baseball card industry,.

Not sure I follow Dan, having cards in department stores has been a part of the American landscape for some time. Anyone have the image of all the 52 Topps on the table at the Woolworth handy?

Bottom line if mainstream retailers are cutting back and local card shops are disappearing from the landscape choices for impressions via new cards will be less. This has been coming for years and years no reason card packs needed to get to the prices they went to.

The scratch off ticket mentality was the downfall of the modern card collecting business. Quite simply it priced out the casual collector who wasn’t interested in paying big bucks for the chance to rip packs and find chase cards.

Less and less young people are buying trading cards & stickers this is a fact, sad but true and the current retail landscape echoes this.

[slidekellyslide]

I agree with everything you've written...I said that business is NOT good for card companies. I still believe there are far more people looking for modern player cards than there are Ty Cobb collectors. I don't even think this is disputable.

[barrysloate]

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

[kmac32]

Would anybody like to buy a Carlos Marmol rookie, I'm sure somebody can get it gardaed and you will have to pay someone to buy it. Reverse economics. LOL

[travrosty]

kids arent buying, the adults are for 100 dollars a pack, hoping to get that autograph insert card, you might as well have all the commons in the packs just blank pieces of white cardboard, they basically all go in the trash anyway. they just want the "hit" the memorabilia jersey card or the autograph card or the vintage autograph insert card. it's like a scratch off lottery that others have mentioned already.

kids arent buying these packs and trying to put together sets like we used to.

[sb1]

back then, packs were available at the I.G.A., the local ball diamond snack shack, the Duckwall's store, hell even the swimming pool concession stand had some, etc. and this was in a town of 2,000 population. My first year of 1969 Topps baseball, they were a nickel a pack. Now every kid in town had change from selling pop bottles or allowances, my grandmother would give me a dollar, that 20 packs! and Al McBean was in every 1st series pack it seemed like.

Nowadays, packs are several dollars, kids no longer work for change or get allowances(they get stipends instead) and need a friggin debit card(I do not use one) to make purchases.

While we decry this as an atrocity, it's simply evolution of a society and a collectible which unfortunately are not going to survive.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb. But that is not the discussion. I am saying that the number of young people buying packs today is a miniscule fraction of what it was when I was growing up, in the late 50's and early 60's. Back then buyng baseball cards was a rite of passage, done by almost every kid of my generation. Today virtually no young people buy them.

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

I misunderstood you then, Barry. I completely agree.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So if there is a future for the vintage card market, and I believe there is, it will start with people collecting their first baseball cards as adults, and it will be the older cards. It may be early Topps and Bowman, it may be Goudey or tobacco, but these future collectors will have no childhood memories of collecting them.

What will do you think will be their motivation to collect vintage cards?

I'd be curious to hear from those who did NOT collect as a kid. What got you started as an adult? (I have my guesses but I don't want to presume)

[barrysloate]

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

[cobblove]

Just thought Id add my thoughts on the "Dying hobby"
I agree it is alive and well with current internet sales.
But on the concern of the younger people getting into the hobby. I think it does not start and end with the sports card hobby shop. It's completely about the game in general. Its about getting the kids playing the game and also respecting the current players. And making it easy to see a real game to respect the game. My thoughts I think we need to make it easier to have kids go to a game and not make it a 1 time a year event like disnyland(ticket prices seem to be very strong). It needs to be a family driven price for tickets to get in and learn the game. i know they make an effort on this but the prices are getting higher and attendance seems lower. I hear a lot lately that baseball is boring to watch. But all i see is tickets going for more than a flight to the next state. There are several problems I think. And my view is that it needs to go back to why whe enjoy collecting a sport as a hobby.
Just saying my concerns and not the norm Im sure.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Their motivation may be nothing more than the fun of collecting. Look at all the collectors today spending multi-millions of dollars on paintings. Well, none of them collected art as kids, that's for sure. These are people who now make a lot of money and have developed a passion in their adulthood. Why would baseball cards be any different?

Exactly! This is the point I try to make in every fate of the hobby thread.

I doubt many 16 year olds are drinking $300 bottles of wine or using stamps. When was the last time you saw someone under the age of 18 use a penny? The hobby will be fine, I'm not worried.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I'm sure any of us could have said the same, Barry, but it's Mike Trout, not Steve. At least you didn't call him Dizzy!

Oops!....and he's one of my favorite players.

[Rich Klein]

real money comes from the "new" cards. With the licensing fees MLB gets from Topps and MLBPA gets from Topps, Upper Deck and Panini, we are about one percent of the collectors.

Barry, it would be nice to get people right to vintage but you got to start somewhere and Wally World and Target are now our front lines in many locations.

And there is the "hope" factor, for example -- (as a plug here) -- read my revioews in Sports Collectors Daily and my editor now puts all my stories on Facebook. Talking about a product like Topps 2 Baseball got about 40 likes, talking about The Trader Speaks got about 10 likes and talking about some other topics got maybe five likes. In other words, lots of people like the new stuff and it's not going away any time soon.

As for the lady's store, I think at this point, if I remember the article correctly she is 89 years old and the store gives her something to do and frankly keeping up with all the new stuff is hard. You have to keep up with both players and products.

Rich

[yomass]

Go long Magic cards, Ninja turtle action figures and MIB classic Nintendo games.
Those are what today's kids will be nostalgic for when they grow up.
Even those worthless beanie babies will be worth having in 2035...

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Dan- you're probably correct that more people today are looking for a Steve Trout than a Ty Cobb.

There are people looking for Steve Trout cards?