Need Help: T206 Print Freak Question

[steve B]

Ericks EP is interesting. It looks like the lower right was done by overlaying a darker blue. If you look at the left edges of the lower right are and the main background the blue left showing by the yelow shift is different.


The card Johnny has is also really interesting.

I'm convinced the plates were laid out using transfers. The various caption problems- missing sections, partly doubled name or team, all are the sort of thing you'd see with a damaged transfer or one that shifted during layout.

When I looked at Johnnys card back when he had it on BST I went and looked at the Hartsels on Ebay. There were some with small shifts, but none with a different shift for the lower right corner.

That made me think about how one area could shift so far leaving the second area in the correct spot.
If the transfer became folded, the upper section could be displaced making a "shift" that was on the plate.
There are a number of surviving cigar lable proofing books from ALC that show the different colors being tested and changes made, with new corrected proofs added in. (And oddly they're not all that expensive. I wonder where all the card proofing books went? )

So I figured the plate was made, turned out to be faulty, and after the first few sheets were made one was marked to show mistakes. A big mistake would probably be corrected. And that big of a misalignment is a big mistake.
That would make the card a real oddity, the only term I could think of was a late stage proof. Which doesn't really fit well, but is simpler than "printed from a rejected blue plate" which also doesn't fit well.

We talked briefly about making a trade, and I felt that if it was what I thought, I had nothing that even came close. I also felt that a lot more research was needed to be able to prove that.

So far all the Hartsels shown have equal shifts in both areas. Except for the EPDG! Which obviously has a completely different setup for what color went where.

There are a few examples of other changes within the 350 series, the easiest to spot are the Demmitt and O'Hara. But Ganzel has either the background far into the hat or not (Not listed as a variation, and finding examples of each is very easy- I think the split is close to 50/50.)
There are also differences between series, like Conroy fielding with or without stripes on the hat.

Seeing the corner on the EP has mostly changed my mind about Johnnys card. It's probably not a bad plate, but a large shift on a card showing a the difference between the two diferent layouts very nicely. There's still a chance of the plate being bad, but it's looking much less likely.

I think it's still an important piece of the puzzle, and it will be interesting to see how many turn up with each version.

Steve B

[atx840]

Nice Steve, figured that's likely the case. Here is the example on the BST I mentioned with the darker corner. Still a super cool card Johnny!

[Jantz]

I can't really add anymore to the Hartsel discussion, but I would like to point out that the Sweeney is an interesting card for various reasons. The two most obvious reasons are that it has a color shift and the back is mis-cut. A third reason is that there is a Piedmont wet sheet transfer also. Look at the right border near his upper arm area. And finally the green ink in the left border from the card front next to it on the sheet.

If one of us took some time we may be able to identify the player next to Sweeney.

The Hartsel and Sweeney cards with the color shifts are interesting. Here is one more with an interesting color shift.


Jantz

[atx840]

Sweeney is part of this 350 series grouping. Should be easy enough to figure out.

1 4 Abstein, Bill Pittsburg
2 33 Bender, Chief (With Trees) Philadelphia Amer.
3 64 Burns, Bill Chicago Amer.
4 71 Campbell, Billy Cincinnati
5 100 Collins, Eddie Philadelphia Amer.
6 112 Cree, Birdie New York Amer.
7 129 Dineen, Bill St. Louis Amer.
8 151 Dubuc, Jean Cincinnati
9 153 Dunn, Jack Baltimore
10 154 Dunn, Joe Brooklyn
11 172 Fiene, Lou (Throwing) Chicago Amer.
12 202 Hannifan, Jack Jersey City
13 205 Hartsel, Topsy Philadelphia Amer.
14 310 McAleese, John St. Louis Amer.
15 313 McCormick, Moose New York Nat'l
16 354 Myers, Chief (Fielding) New York Nat'l
17 361 Oberlin, Frank Minneapolis
18 464 Stephens, Jim St. Louis Amer.
19 473 Sweeney, Bill Boston Nat'l
20 482 Thomas, Ira Philadelphia Amer.
21 515 Wilson, Owen Pittsburg
22 524 Zimmerman, Heinie Chicago Nat'l

[Gradedcardman]

Campbell, Cree or Wilson ?

[atx840]

Looks like Campbell or Cree.

[Gradedcardman]

Based on color shade I lean toward Campbell.