The T206 "Elite Eight" have become the "Elite Eleven"

[wonkaticket]

Good stuff Ted.

[atx840]

Ted, I believe these 9 are also no prints with Sov350, t206resource has them as possible-not confirmed.

19 Barger, Cy Rochester
101 Collins, Jimmy Minneapolis
164 Evans, Steve St. Louis Nat'l
192 Gray, Dolly Washington
197 Groom, Bob Washington
309 Mattern, Al Boston Nat'l
326 McLean, Larry Cincinnati
399 Puttman, Ambrose Louisville
436 Shannon, Spike Kansas City

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Ted, I believe these 9 are also no prints with Sov350, t206resource has them as possible-not confirmed.

19 Barger, Cy Rochester
101 Collins, Jimmy Minneapolis
164 Evans, Steve St. Louis Nat'l
192 Gray, Dolly Washington
197 Groom, Bob Washington
309 Mattern, Al Boston Nat'l
326 McLean, Larry Cincinnati
399 Puttman, Ambrose Louisville
436 Shannon, Spike Kansas City

Hey Chris

There are many more than those you have listed.

From my SOVEREIGN 350-only NO-PRINT list that I posted 6 years ago on this forum when I completed my All-SOVEREIGN set...........

350 SERIES......consists of 204 cards......the NO-PRINTS are:

Abstein
Adkins
Arrellanes
Barbeau
Barger
Becker
Bliss
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Charles
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Minn.)
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Demmitt (New York American)
Dessau
Dorner

Downey (fielding)
Elberfed (portrait-Washington)
Engle
Evans
Fletcher
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (St Louis AL)
Gray
Groom
Hayden
Hoffman (St Louis AL)
Hunter
Jones (portrait Detroit)
La Porte
Lattimore
Lord
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Maddox
Maloney

Marshall
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McElveen
McLean
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Nattress
Phillippe
Puttman
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck

Shannon
Sharpe
Snodgrass (bat)
Starr
Willett



TED Z
__________________________________________________ ______________________
LOOKING FOR these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set

AMES....CAMNITZ....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (port)....JORDAN (bat)....McGRAW (port-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off)....WILTSE (port-cap)

[atx840]

Thanks Ted, I know there are many more but those 9 are in an exclusive group that are not printed with several backs yet are still listed as possible for Sov350.

[tedzan]

Trust me....those 9 subjects you listed are SOVEREIGN 350 NO PRINTS....period.

Anyhow, I'm trying to understand what do these 9 cards have to do with the subject matter in this thread....regarding the "Elite Eleven".

If they are meant to be an O/T that's fine.....I dig that. I just don't get how these 9 unrelated T206's fit in this discussion.

Please explain ?


TED Z

[deadballfreaK]

[Phillies*phan]

Good stuff Ted. When you say "very rare" can you be more specific as to a possible ratio. Maybe like 150 to 350 is 10-1. I do have Dahlen and Karger in Piedmont 350.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Phillies*phan

Good stuff Ted. When you say "very rare" can you be more specific as to a possible ratio. Maybe like 150 to 350 is 10-1. I do have Dahlen and Karger in Piedmont 350.

Hi Doug

The relative scarcity of the PIEDMONT 350 and the EPDG versions of the Elite Eleven with respect to their PIEDMONT 150 cards varies from subject to subject.

Tracking these T206's over the years tells me that the ratio of P150 to P350 ranges from a factor of 20:1 to 50:1

The ratio of P150 to EPDG ranges from 40:1 to 60:1

I'll try to get some actual numbers on these cards.


TED Z

[Jantz]

Good information Ted!

Interesting that Ewing is the only player with a 1910 date in your noted timeline. He seems to be, at least for me, the easiest player to find with a Piedmont 350 back.

Do you think its possible that more of his cards were printed with a 350 back since his trade came much later than the other players you have listed?


Jantz

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Good information Ted!

Interesting that Ewing is the only player with a 1910 date in your noted timeline. He seems to be, at least for me, the easiest player to find with a Piedmont 350 back.

Do you think its possible that more of his cards were printed with a 350 back since his trade came much later than the other players you have listed?


Jantz

Great to hear from you Jantz

You make an interesting point regarding the Ewing card. In my hunt for these T206's with PIEDMONT 350 backs or EPDG backs, I have had (or seen) more Ewing's
with these two rare backs than any of the other subjects in this "Elite" group.

To give you a more certain answer, I'll have to check-out my records.


TED Z

[atx840]

OT for sure Ted...I've emailed my data and reached out to you and never hear back so this is the only way I can engage you to discuss some other interesting oddities.

Breaking the 350 series backs into groups (sheet mates) based on cards that are only found with the same backs with no exceptions....you start to see patterns.

Like your Elite 11 pop right out - Groups 8 (3), 18 (3), 24 (5) = 11 + Group 19 (Lundren)



Those in Group 4 (9) I mentioned are in their own group and are all still unconfirmed for Sov350s....leading me to believe they do not exist. There are several more subgroups if you start to group the unconfirmed groups.

I think we can knock off most of the unconfirmed cards through this method.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by atx840

OT for sure Ted...I've emailed my data and reached out to you and never hear back so this is the only way I can engage you to discuss some other interesting oddities.

Breaking the 350 series backs into groups (sheet mates) based on cards that are only found with the same backs with no exceptions....you start to see patterns.

Like your Elite 11 pop right out - Groups 8 (3), 18 (3), 24 (5) = 11 + Group 19 (Lundren)



Those in Group 4 (9) I mentioned are in their own group and are all still unconfirmed for Sov350s....leading me to believe they do not exist. There are several more subgroups if you start to group the unconfirmed groups.

I think we can knock off most of the unconfirmed cards through this method.

I haven't seen the data Chris has on the 350s, but I've had a nice long look at his work on the 460's and other than a very few minor adjustments that might be needed it looks to be both correct and very interesting.

Steve B

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I really wish I had kept back and front scans of all the T206s I once owned. All most all the cards I accumulated and sold from the mid 80s to the mid 2000's I either did not keep any scan or never scanned the front with back.

Of the 80 cards I had from the mid 80s there was a Ewing and Spenser EPDG and I was almost positive I once owned a Mullin Pied 350, I use to buy horizontals all the time. Decided I did not want to go for a back run of them because I had a Piedmont 150 and 350, sold off the others and kept the highest grade one. But that being said I have no scan of the 350, so who knows if I actually owned one.

I added cards are interesting because I thought the Shaw and Schaefer were a little tougher but not well known but the Spencer never seemed to fall into that category.

I still think there are some tougher commons out the that will get there day in the sun. Kleinow, NY & Smith, Chicago come to mind.

Lee