Is Baseball's Hall of Fame Overpopulated? ...or

[slidekellyslide]

I am less stringent in what I believe a hall of famer to be. Roger Maris should be in IMO. Record breaker, 2 time MVP, and FAMOUS.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I am less stringent in what I believe a hall of famer to be. Roger Maris should be in IMO. Record breaker, 2 time MVP, and FAMOUS.

And when he goes in, let's also put the guy in who hit almost 200 more homers, stole 10 times more bases, had higher peak AND career average, slugging %, and OPS. Plus he had far more RBI, even accounting for his 5 more seasons. While he only had 1 MVP, he was a ROY, and I say he was even MORE FAMOUS: Jose Canseco.

[Fred]

Yes, there are two many players in the HOF. IMO, they should recognize the more of the early pioneers of the game. How can Ross Barnes not be in the HOF? He's one of many. If Bobby Mathews won 3 more games he'd be in the HOF. Soooo many really cool stories for the pioneers.

[deadballfreaK]

Definitely a few weak ones got in from the 20s and 30s. Frankie Frisch pushed a few of his buddies through.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

And when he goes in, let's also put the guy in who hit almost 200 more homers, stole 10 times more bases, had higher peak AND career average, slugging %, and OPS. Plus he had far more RBI, even accounting for his 5 more seasons. While he only had 1 MVP, he was a ROY, and I say he was even MORE FAMOUS: Jose Canseco.

I place more value on the players who were drug free over the roid-ragers.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I place more value on the players who were drug free over the roid-ragers.

I do, too, but when the roid-rager posts numbers that completely blow away the drug-free guy, it's hard to say the drug-free guy is a HOFer (esp. when the roid-rager was probably not even top-10 of his era.)

If you take Maris' freak season away, he was, well, a very good player. That does not make for a HOFer (just as Don Newcombe.)

BUT, that's the fun of this debate. I would like to see some guys in who you would think crazy, too. (Buck O'Neil, Mickey Vernon, Minne Minoso, Cecil Travis at least deserve serious consideration, in my mind.)

Ken

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I do, too, but when the roid-rager posts numbers that completely blow away the drug-free guy, it's hard to say the drug-free guy is a HOFer (esp. when the roid-rager was probably not even top-10 of his era.)

If you take Maris' freak season away, he was, well, a very good player. That does not make for a HOFer (just as Don Newcombe.)

BUT, that's the fun of this debate. I would like to see some guys in who you would think crazy, too. (Buck O'Neil, Mickey Vernon, Minne Minoso, Cecil Travis at least deserve serious consideration, in my mind.)

Ken

I don't think any one of those guys you list is crazy...like I said I think more guys should be in. How about Lefty O'Doul??? That guy gave his whole life to baseball and he's not in...he even hit .349 over 11 seasons in the majors and he's not in. Consider too that he played most of his career in the PCL which at the time was probably just as good as the major leagues. Dale Murphy should go in, he was certainly one of the best players of his era. Jack Morris should go in, certainly among the top pitchers of his era.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't think any one of those guys you list is crazy...like I said I think more guys should be in. How about Lefty O'Doul??? That guy gave his whole life to baseball and he's not in...he even hit .349 over 11 seasons in the majors and he's not in. Consider too that he played most of his career in the PCL which at the time was probably just as good as the major leagues. Dale Murphy should go in, he was certainly one of the best players of his era. Jack Morris should go in, certainly among the top pitchers of his era.

I'm right there with you on Morris!! All the guy did was win. So what if he cruised with a big lead? If I had a big game to win in the 80's, I'm putting the ball in his hands.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't think any one of those guys you list is crazy...like I said I think more guys should be in. How about Lefty O'Doul??? That guy gave his whole life to baseball and he's not in...he even hit .349 over 11 seasons in the majors and he's not in. Consider too that he played most of his career in the PCL which at the time was probably just as good as the major leagues. Dale Murphy should go in, he was certainly one of the best players of his era. Jack Morris should go in, certainly among the top pitchers of his era.

Ah. Lefty O'doul. He's another that I think is being judged solely on his career. Based on length, I think that's why he's been passed-over. HOWEVER. He's another that I feel will eventually get some "pioneer" consideration. Due to his influence in the establishment of professional baseball in Japan. Especially with the number of Japanese players that have been coming over lately. Without O'doul, do we ever see Ichiro, Kuroda, Matsui, Darvish, Aoki, Dice-K, Nomo, Iwakuma or Tazawa? Quite possibly not.. Hell, he's even in the Japanese Hall of Fame..

[GaryPassamonte]

The problem with the HOF induction rules are that candidates are not allowed to be considered based on their body of work. They are considered as either a player, manager, executive, or umpire.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I place more value on the players who were drug free over the roid-ragers.

So nobody from the 70-s-80's - Coke
Nobody from the 60's maybe later 50's -Amphetamines

Not too sure what was popular and effective before then, but it's always something.

Steve B

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

And when he goes in, let's also put the guy in who hit almost 200 more homers, stole 10 times more bases, had higher peak AND career average, slugging %, and OPS. Plus he had far more RBI, even accounting for his 5 more seasons. While he only had 1 MVP, he was a ROY, and I say he was even MORE FAMOUS: Jose Canseco.

He's one mvp short.


Gale Sayers played in only 68 football games, brett favre over 300, both in football HOF