1961 topps with green inside baseball

[nolemmings]

So how would you classify these 1961 Bobby Bolin cards below? The first one has a bottom border bleed that fills in the "P" in Pitcher. This came from ebay, as my copy, which has a far more noticeable bleed, is playing hide and seek with me at the moment.



Next is Bolin with the bottom edge stray black line. Are these noteworthy variations or print defects?

[JollyElm]

In my world, those are nothing more than print defects, since nothing was changed in the printing process to make an alteration to the original design. Those types of things are so plentiful across print runs, that it would be completely unworkable to consider them all as separate variation examples.

[ALR-bishop]

Todd---neat card, Had not seen

Steve---your usual good take

Darren---no one is wrong...or right on this stuff. Too each his own. But value still needs hobby recognition....for good or bad. Since I am just in it as a hobby, I just collect what appeals to me

[nolemmings]

Thanks Al. Those 4 Bolin cards with the bottom print line are not mine-- they all came from Ebay and can be yours. I just wondered what the opinions were about this anomoly vs. the green inside baseball. BTW, there were 105 Bolins in my search and only these 4 carried the stray line, so it seems like a decent sample size from which to conclude that the line is relatively scarce, I wonder what % the green inside baseball vs not is found for those '61s that share this "variation".

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Todd---neat card, Had not seen

Steve---your usual good take

Darren---no one is wrong...or right on this stuff. Too each his own. But value still needs hobby recognition....for good or bad. Since I am just in it as a hobby, I just collect what appeals to me

Ummm...who used the words right and wrong in describing anything?????? I stated what the cards specifically were and left it at that, free of any judgments.

[Tomman1961]

Sorry-I posted I have the Santo with the green. I meant to say The Fairley. Sorry for the mistake. My Santo does not have the green.

[steve B]

The Bolins are interesting examples.

The first one is a printing problem. Overinked, thin ink, or plate too dry or too wet, all have roughly the same result. Unless it's more severe or in a certain spot it's hard to tell.

The ones with the line at the bottom are the sort of thing I collect. While someone else might not call it a variation, it's a difference on the black plate. The line may be either a cutting guideline, in which case there will be another card with the same line at the top, or it might be from the sheet edge and only show on miscut cards. Most of the time, there's another version of the card that even when off center by just as much won't have the line.

I don't chase them all that actively though. And I generally don't pay a premium. Usually the cards are discounted as being poorly centered or otherwise defective

Steve B

[ALR-bishop]

Todd--do not know % but the defect occurs in many 61 cards and is not scarce, maybe something similar to the Bolin %

Darren---you have my apologies , Dude. We share a common interest and I actually agree with you for the most part

[4reals]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Darren---no one is wrong...or right on this stuff. Too each his own. But value still needs hobby recognition....for good or bad. Since I am just in it as a hobby, I just collect what appeals to me

I like this, well said Al.

[4reals]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

So how would you classify these 1961 Bobby Bolin cards below? The first one has a bottom border bleed that fills in the "P" in Pitcher.

Next is Bolin with the bottom edge stray black line. Are these noteworthy variations or print defects?

Based on the definitions I use it would depend on the print line. If the print line is determined to be a cut line found on every sheet the cards were printed on I would call them miscuts and they would be anomalies. If the print lines were designer errors that found their way on early runs I would call them variations because they were "fixed". As for the P that is filled in with black ink that is definitely an anomaly in my eyes. Cool finds none the less. Here are some from the '63 set that I'm not sure where to categorize. Miscuts, yes, but not all the miscuts of these cards have the same appearance. I'm leaning towards just calling them miscut anomalies because if I start trying to categorize a card based on something that was never intended to be viewed (off of the design area) then I may really have issues.

Here is the correct, the miscut with a yellow bar, and a miscut with a white bar


Here is a similar scenario with the Fairly card


Here are definite unlisted variations, which depict a cropped image of Zimmer. Note the number of stripes on his uniform and the placement of the bat from the inset image on Zimmer's turtleneck and his elbows on the inset image.


Wasn't this a thread about '61 Topps Greenies? How'd I end up in 1963? sorry 'bout that!

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by 4reals

Based on the definitions I use it would depend on the print line. If the print line is determined to be a cut line found on every sheet the cards were printed on I would call them miscuts and they would be anomalies. If the print lines were designer errors that found their way on early runs I would call them variations because they were "fixed". As for the P that is filled in with black ink that is definitely an anomaly in my eyes. Cool finds none the less. Here are some from the '63 set that I'm not sure where to categorize. Miscuts, yes, but not all the miscuts of these cards have the same appearance. I'm leaning towards just calling them miscut anomalies because if I start trying to categorize a card based on something that was never intended to be viewed (off of the design area) then I may really have issues.

Here is the correct, the miscut with a yellow bar, and a miscut with a white bar


Here is a similar scenario with the Fairly card


Here are definite unlisted variations, which depict a cropped image of Zimmer. Note the number of stripes on his uniform and the placement of the bat from the inset image on Zimmer's turtleneck and his elbows on the inset image.


Wasn't this a thread about '61 Topps Greenies? How'd I end up in 1963? sorry 'bout that!

Not to continue to stray OT, but the Zimmer is a part of the group of 63s that feature the two different inset image croppings.... IMO, not a true variation as these are actually two different cards.

http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/1963_New_Variations.pdf

[4reals]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

IMO, not a true variation as these are actually two different cards.

Funny, because in my opinion it's the perfect example for a true variation.
To each their own I guess.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by 4reals

Funny, because in my opinion it's the perfect example for a true variation.
To each their own I guess.

Yep, that's a text book example of "variations" if you ask me.