Ezzard Charles disgrace with pre-certification, when will it end?

[toybulldog]

And if asked to prove it with exemplars and go point by point over the autograph, I would be more than glad to do so.

No need, just place it next to some real ones and even the baseball card guys will have no problems figuring this one out:



But there are some legitimate promotional photographs signed by Ezzard Charles out there. Which one doesn't fit here?



FBI, fly me in to testify.

[travrosty]

i think the fbi sometimes asks the wrong people. who is watching the watchers?

I'd testify any day too, with exemplars and proof and not just heresay, and clamming up and putting a finger to the wind and guessing like we see these precerts.

There really does need to be an investigation on how these "autographs" slip through and get certified. I bet I couldn't send that charles autograph in and get it certified. Or the Luis Firpo, or any of those bad ones. The good ones I have would have trouble getting a cert I bet. That's my opinion based on my experience with these companies.

charles usually signed that photograph in the lower portion, as shown, so having it signed up top is not the norm, it doesnt make it automatically bad, but the autograph itself is horrendous compared to the very consistent genuine autograph of Ezzard Charles. Why doesn't Grad know better, or Joe O. Doesn't the buck stop with those guys? Where is the FBI anyway?
I could only imagine what the discovery process in court would be like.

Like 'the boss' says" I was buuuuurned by PSA, I was buuuuurned by PSA.

[mighty bombjack]

I don't think PSA is committing a crime, just providing a substandard service and claiming to be experts in something they're not.

There have been claims made here and on other sites that they are being investigated by the FBI, but I have never believed those claims.

[travrosty]

I would have trouble believing this precert was an honest mistake made by someone who looked at it who knows boxing or ezzard charles autographs.

i think they have an institutional problem for some time now that prevents them from getting an autograph like this in front of a pair of eyes who really knows this boxers autographs. they suffer from this problem either by choice or as a result of neglect or failing to correct a problem due to various factors. maybe $$$ or what have you.

But they are failing and they are having a problem that they are not interested in fixing either by choice or by some other reasons. it truly baffles me why they can't authenticate boxing autographs in a competent manner.

[Big Dave]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I don't think PSA is committing a crime, just providing a substandard service and claiming to be experts in something they're not.
.

I believe Donald Fragipani, Chris Morales, and others have used this analogy.

[travrosty]

This is the cluster they have created for themselves over there.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

I believe Donald Fragipani, Chris Morales, and others have used this analogy.

You are correct, and I think this is the really interesting conundrum in the area of autograph collecting. Forgery is a crime, as is knowingly selling forgeries. Is it a crime to authenticate fake autos? Even if someone is being paid for it, they are merely giving an opinion.

I think that a criminal investigator looking at coaches corner would have a lot of trouble determining who was actually signing these things and proving that the auction house is knowingly selling fakes. Sort of that, I don't know that Morales could be convicted of anything. He can claim ignorance/negligence, but those are not crimes.

[Big Dave]

....and that is why all these authenticators are still in business. It is not a crime to give an opinion, regardless of how incompetent one is.

[jimmyfoxx]

I can see most points made in this thread but one thing we are overlooking is the workload for authenticators is tremendous and yet the percent of autographs that we discuss here is small. We should all consider that when quoting others, we should at ourselves as well - "To err is human, to forgive divine." ... Not one of us - no, not one - is perfect and as long as the percentages of autographs like the above Charles remain small - lets not rip those that who do work hard to provide a service to our industry ...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I think that a criminal investigator looking at coaches corner would have a lot of trouble determining who was actually signing these things and proving that the auction house is knowingly selling fakes. .

I think that CC, in their divine work, would be paying their forger/consignors by check. They probably get paid by CC or check so they do have to pay out to consignors by check. If only some government agency could get subpoena power for their books, then it would be easy enough to find the forgers. Just look at the books and see who has gotten paid every month for the last 10 or more years.

[toybulldog]

"To err is human, to forgive divine."

Forgiveness awaits all that have the courage to admit their mistakes. We're still waiting.