1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth sells for more than the T206 Wagner

[Zone91]

Alex Rodriguez has better #'s than Mantle and will most likely be the new homerun king in a couple of years and have over 3000 hits...but truly who really cares about his cards....you will never see people collect these cards like they collect iconic and legendary players just will not happen.

Pete Rose is still the # 1 hit leader and his rookie goes for only a couple hundred dollars in PSA 5....why simple he is not Mantle or Ruth or some other player like Cobb or Wagner or Shoeless Joe Jackson. No one will become the new poster face of modern day baseball except for Mantle....not Hank Aaron not Willie Mays no one.

Post # 6

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Zone91

Pete Rose is still the # 1 hit leader and his rookie goes for only a couple hundred dollars in PSA 5....

Citing this example is somewhat specious. It is very tough to compare different cards' values in the same grade across different eras. It is also very hard to compare players' statures based on card values. A low pop common from the 60s or 70s might command $3000+ in PSA 9; that doesn't mean that common player is better than Mike Schmidt.

Due to time and collectors preservation habits, many more 1963 Rose rookie cards are laying around than there are 1952 Mantles...

There are currently 1128 Mantles graded by PSA, with 227 grading at and north of PSA 5.

In contrast, there are 2859 Rose RCs graded by PSA, with nearly 2000 examples at or north of PSA 5.

So condition now enters the conversation as a determinant of value and it becomes apples to oranges. In PSA 8 or 9, the Rose RC is not a cheap card, and its price in that range might sound more commensurate with it being the RC of the all time hits leader.

That said, I think Mantle's iconic status within the card collecting hobby will stand the test of time, as will Ruth's. Even though Mantle has many cards in the hobby, eye-appealing examples of his earliest issues will, in my opinion, never plunge in value, nor will his rare issues like say the Dice Game. But again this is all talk and only time will tell.

I think names like Ruth, Cobb, Aaron, Williams, and DiMaggio, will endure well in terms of their card values-- but by card values I specifically mean the values of their most desired, popular cards. I can see a later issue Ted Williams dipping over time but not nearly as much so for a card like the 1954 Wilson Franks. Similarly I can see a 1968 Mantle in PSA 8 dipping long term, but not nearly as much if at all for a nicely centered example of his RC or the 52T.

[brian1961]

Ty Cobb - lots of wonderful cards, with lots of scarcities

Babe Ruth - few cards, period. But then we have this card, technically a pre-rookie, with great eye appeal and rarity, that does not transact very often. It has a lot going for it.

Mickey Mantle - many, many cards. Many, many scarcities. Many, many condition rarities. Identifying the profile of what issues have scarcity, rarity, condition rarity, fabulous eye appeal, and media coverage would make prudent research for a collector-investor. Media coverage can change, good or bad, depending on a lot of things. Think about it for a moment, in regards to Mantle--the 1952 Topps is the Mantle card written about 90 per cent of the time. Perhaps more than that. Why aren't some of the other Mantle cards profiled and spotlighted? I honestly think it is because the hobby writers had either one-track minds, were too shallow, stupid, or lazy to put forth the effort to research other Mantle gems. But really, I have been involved with journalism, there are deadlines, and the luxury of time is rare. Then again, if you have no one willing to be interviewed, what Mantle are you going to turn to? '52 Topps. An interesting observation I have noticed, when I was a kid, people asked, do you have a card of Babe Ruth? Today however, people ask, do you have a card of Mickey Mantle?

Honus Wagner - Other than his T-206, which has been a hobby legend since I suppose Jefferson Burdick placed a much higher value upon it in the original AMERICAN CARD CATALOG, there are lots of cards, cabinets, and discs. In the case of the PSA 8 Wagner, its aura became discolored due to Bill Mastro's admission it was hand-cut from a strip. But most of us figured this was the case years ago. Personally, I agree with the few who countered with, simply re-slab as a PSA 8 HAND-CUT. An exception should be made for the Gretzky-McNall Wagner, that is so far and away above the rest condition-wise. For this card, yes. However, the high-grade Wagner's effect upon his other cards has been interesting. Their value arched up because of the T-206. Then again, I am not a pre-war guy, and I'm certain they place him, rightly so, among the top players of that era.

Too many people still equate statistics with who should also then be the number one in most valuable collectibles. Again, lots of factors---where they played, impact on the game or who got to play, and performed stupendously, before National TV. I remember well in 1971. Still the masses did not seem to grasp how special Roberto Clemente was. The '71 Series changed that.

Jackie Robinson's numbers are not cited really. But anyone with an ounce of BB history and social history might understand why his 1950 uniform recently sold for $400,000. Others with much higher numbers sold way way below that.

Many of the cards discussed here are all great. Time will tell. If anyone has conversed with a collector having a 7-figure annual budget about what motivates them, please share. That would be interesting. If you cannot name a name, fine. But please sing it out. I seriously doubt it is all that mysterious. That coffee table book by Steven Wang was insightful. It is typical of the wealthy--they want things that are elegant, stand out, and are not easily obtained. With regard to the card hobby, they have often been driven to the big names, and their beautiful scarce cards, or cards in extraordinary condition. The generated threads along the lines of "if you could have ...? all pretty much bare out what the affluent desire--we all know the difference that allows one to pursue the dream cards and those who can only dream about them. Ownership of such expensive cardboard carries its own problems, pitfalls, and responsibilities.

Back to the actual subject. OK-so the Baltimore News Babe Ruth garnered a higher value. This hobby ought to have place for at least a dozen, or seven perhaps, great cards at the highest level. Wagner has gotten SO MUCH press through the years of the adult hobby's growth from the 1970s-on. I believe the general hobby did not even know of the Baltimore News Babe Ruth's existence until the mid-to-late-80s. Looking at the card, I can well appreciate why it took off price-wise. Barry Sloate brought up a vital point---Wagners are offered 3-4 times a year, whereas the Baltimore News Babe was coming along once a year at REA, then stopped. Now, perhaps once every 2-3 years. Someone else pointed out the vast difference in the population between the two--with anywhere from 4-7 of the T-206 Honus for each one of Babe. The exclusivity for each one is well-established. But, the fact remains the Baltimore News Babe Ruth is far and away rarer. Nothing new there. Collectors do not collect Baltimore News. We all know that most of the pre-war guys collect T-206. The difference?

Most of the guys collecting T-206 cannot afford the Wagner. The wealthy go for the jugular; they'll get the very best for its importance, value, exclusivity, and their own personal satisfaction. Most all of us would want a great card of the Babe. Maybe I am greatly mistaken, but there are relatively few great Ruths to choose from. For instance, how about a great card from '20, '21, or his legendary '27 season? There are some--the Headin' Home cards, and a few exhibits. The answer is best epitomized by an exchange by Moe and Curly in one of their many classic comedies, "Three Little Pirates":

Moe: "You gotta something else?"

Curly: "NAHHHTING!"

Moe: "Nahting?"

Curly: "Youx." (pronounced "YOKES", WHICH TRANSLATES TO "YES")

Moe: "Ooh Boy."

It's too bad. But the Goudeys are great cards, and there are some others. The Baltimore News Babe Ruth, a regional issue, fills the bill on so many fronts---fantastic appearance, scarcity, rarity, terrific story. It bares all the ingredients for a card to rival and sometimes beat Honus in value. The opportunities are few on this one. The fight was on. "Ze Blood Ran In Ze Streets."

'Nuf said.

Gotta go. -Brian Powell