Brown. Black & Blue, Boners & Balks - The B thread

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

No balk though...does that just advance a runner already on base?

Yes, balk only advances runners already on base.. Would never get you to first

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Yes, balk only advances runners already on base.. Would never get you to first

A balk on a three ball count WOULD give the batter first base as a balk is called a ball.......

[frankbmd]

If you believe in devolution, this thread is for you. Fortunately this is a primarily a baseball forum. The range of topics touched upon so far have only one thing in common, the letter B. Therefore I liken the thread's current content to an episode of "Sesame Street" featuring the letter B. Specifically Episode 1845,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odjpnU28tws

A few corrections to prior posts are i order. I suggest changing the following:

Switch-hitters shall henceforth be known as bi-sided hitters.
Ambidextrous pitchers can be referred to simply as bi-dextrous pitchers.
Dropped third strikes should be Bad Catcher Play or Catcher Boner if you prefer.

The thread will welcome all "B" related content: literary, audio and visual.

So instead of considering this thread as a 17 minute wipe out, sing along and let the B games begin

Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame Street

Addendum: EK's post below has me worried. i admit that the reference to the B Song is a copy and paste, but not the Sesame Street song (I know it by heart).

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

A balk on a three ball count WOULD give the batter first base as a balk is called a ball.......

Most balks I'm aware of can only occur when a runner is on base, and once the pitcher comes set. Most do not involve a pitch.. Once set, if you bend you knees, don't come fully set, take your hand out of the glove, step toward the plate, etc without throwing a pitch you're "deceiving the runner" hence a balk (no change in count). If you do something crazy and fall down, and the ball comes out, it may be a balk if a runner is on base.. But think this would only be considered a ball if no runners are on and pitching from the wind up... In either case the runner would reach first on "ball" four rather than on the balk.. Right???? That's how I'd understood it.

Please explain a balk/ball 4 scenario with runners and/or with no runners.. I'm very curious since I was a pitcher in my younger days.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Most balks I'm aware of can only occur when a runner is on base, and once the pitcher comes set. Most do not involve a pitch.. Once set, if you bend you knees, don't come fully set, take your hand out of the glove, step toward the plate, etc without throwing a pitch you're "deceiving the runner" hence a balk (no change in count). If you do something crazy and fall down, and the ball comes out, it may be a balk if a runner is on base.. But think this would only be considered a ball if no runners are on and pitching from the wind up... In either case the runner would reach first on "ball" four rather than on the balk.. Right???? That's how I'd understood it.

Please explain a balk/ball 4 scenario with runners and/or with no runners.. I'm very curious since I was a pitcher in my younger days.

I lifted this.....When a balk is made on a pitch that is a 4th ball, it shall be ruled the same as when the batter hits a balk pitch and is safe on a hit or error, provided all runners advance at least one base on the play. Therefore, with a runner on 1st, 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd, when a balk is called on the 4th ball, the batter goes to 1st base and all runners advance at least one base. If they attempt to advance more than one base, they do so at their own risk.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I lifted this.....When a balk is made on a pitch that is a 4th ball, it shall be ruled the same as when the batter hits a balk pitch and is safe on a hit or error, provided all runners advance at least one base on the play. Therefore, with a runner on 1st, 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd, when a balk is called on the 4th ball, the batter goes to 1st base and all runners advance at least one base. If they attempt to advance more than one base, they do so at their own risk.

I may be wrong but I think in the matter of a balk followed by a pitch and/or ball in play certain events overrule others. If a balk occurs and is followed by a safe hit.. The balk is overlooked and the hit stands.. If followed by an out (say a pop out) the balk stands and any runner advances... If followed by a ball four, the "ball" supersedes the balk and the batter takes first base. I think regardless, the batter is awarded first base on the basis of base on balls, and per your situation the runners are advancing by virtuebone same base on balls that forces them forward a base. A 3 ball count balk in and of its self (without a ball four), like not coming fully set/bending knees, etc would not result in the batter taking first, only in the runners advancing.

Regardless, I don't envy MLB umpires... Even if they did butcher those calls last week.

[itjclarke]

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[itjclarke]

Adding- regardless I'd think the vast majority (90% +) of balks are called and enforced prior to the pitch, for any (and many more) of the aforementioned infractions. About the only way I could imagine a balk resulting in a live pitch is if the pitcher doesn't come fully set at the waist prior to making his movement toward the plate.. That call would have to be instantaneous to stop the pitch and if the 2nd base umpire rather than the home plate umpire, makes the call, it may allow for a pitch to be thrown.

I'm firing from the hip here (traveling/using phone only) but if anyone with good Google access could clarify further, I'd love to read more. Balks confused me enough when I was playing.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I may be wrong but I think in the matter of a balk followed by a pitch and/or ball in play certain events overrule others. If a balk occurs and is followed by a safe hit.. The balk is overlooked and the hit stands.. If followed by an out (say a pop out) the balk stands and any runner advances... If followed by a ball four, the "ball" supersedes the balk and the batter takes first base. I think regardless, the batter is awarded first base on the basis of base on balls, runners on base advance by virtue of the balk. And a 3 ball count balk in and of its self (without a ball four), like not coming fully set/bending knees, etc would not result in the batter taking first.

Regardless, I don't envy MLB umpires... Even if they did butcher those calls last week.

The longer I think about this the more my head hurts. After going to the instant replay booth, I concede a mis-interpretation on my part. Either way the guy gets 1st base....Balk or ball four........

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

The longer I think about this the more my head hurts. After going to the instant replay booth., I concede a mis-interpretaion on my part. Either way the guy gets 1st base....Balk or ball four........

I agree, my head and thumbs hurt. It's fun to hate the umps, but those guys have to keep a lot of crap straight, and in front of 50 millionaires, 45,000 fans, and if they're really lucky a several million large postseason viewing audience. lotta pressure on those guys.